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21. Emotional Rollercoasters with Robyn Egloff
13 Plays1 year ago
Robyn Egloff was born with a strong work ethic, but she had to learn to ask for help.
Her graphic design career began at a traditional ad agency, an experience full of highs and lows. She loved the camaraderie and creativity. But 3 A.M. press checks for dog food bags? Woof.
When her first child arrived, she pared down. By kiddo #3, agency life was untenable.
“Staying home with kids had always looked harder than going to work.” But financially, it made more sense. She tried the full-time-mom-thing but felt…incomplete.
The feeling spurred her into the world of freelance design. After a few years, she Co-Founded The Nest Collective, a boutique virtual agency, with two friends.
In this episode, Robyn gets real about the emotional rollercoasters of business ownership, motherhood, and getting sued for work that was “too good.”
For more inspiration, subscribe to Unbound Turnarounds on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts!
LINKS:
- Connect with Nicole
- Connect with Mallory
- Connect with Robyn: www.thenestbzn.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Unbound Turnarounds
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Unbound Turnarounds, a podcast all about the challenges women business owners think about constantly, but rarely voice. We're Nicole and Mallory, entrepreneurs, friends, and co-founders of Business Unbound, a community helping women alleviate the headaches, heartaches, and backaches so work actually works for life. This is your safe space for the ups, downs, and the turnarounds.
00:00:30
Speaker
We are here once again, everyone. Welcome back to On Bound Turnaround.
Season Two: Well-being in Entrepreneurship
00:00:36
Speaker
We are on to season two. So a quick reminder that in season two, we're talking all about the different aspects of well-being and how it relates to being entrepreneurs. Today, we're diving into a favorite topic of everyone, I'm sure, emotional roller coasters.
00:00:56
Speaker
Nicole, you don't know anything about that, do you? Oh, no, I've never experienced any of these. I constantly live on this, Mallory. I live on this roller coaster, and I can't seem to get off of it. So that's why I am already loving this episode. I can't wait to chat with our guest
Robin Egglov's Influences and Career Beginnings
00:01:11
Speaker
today. She is Robin Egglov. She was born and raised in Alaska. And she grew up with a front row seat on this particular roller coaster because she watched her father run his own restaurant.
00:01:22
Speaker
Her mother, a cytotechnologist, also modeled being really independent and career-oriented. And so that plays into her story as well. Robin enrolled at Northern Michigan University, where she pursued competitive cross-country skiing. And she took a year off in beautiful Boulder, Colorado at some point to work at a bakery and ponder her next move. And it was during that time that she discovered a love for graphic design.
00:01:46
Speaker
So she then enrolled at Montana State University with renewed focus and earned her BFA in graphic design with an art history minor. After eight years with a traditional marketing agency, she pivoted to freelance life and co-founded the Nest Collective, a virtual ad agency and her professional home base for the last decade.
00:02:04
Speaker
Now, outside of work, Robin enjoys cross-country skiing, of course, camping, quilting, running for really, really long times in the woods, and trying to keep up with three teenagers. So that's a roller coaster in itself. Welcome to the show, Robin. Thanks so much for having me.
00:02:21
Speaker
All right, so we're going to just dive in to hear more about your journey, especially as a fellow working mom. I get excited to talk to people in that space. So to begin, let's back up a little further, though. I'm curious what you remember about watching your father actually run his own restaurant. And were there any lessons that you learned about the ups and downs of entrepreneurship at an early age because of that?
Balancing Personal and Career Aspirations
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think part of it is just work ethic and work, which is good and bad. You know, I've learned over the years that like just enduring and just working isn't always the best idea, the best plan, but I have two older brothers. We're all within two and a half years, which I think was torture on my parents at the time.
00:03:01
Speaker
But we all worked for dad and we all were treated with respect as employees of his. We called him Werner at work. He wasn't dad. We didn't really like our coworkers to be like, oh, that's your dad. But we were young when we started. We all started at about 13, just working in the summers. It was a pretty seasonal touristy spot.
00:03:22
Speaker
I think just gaining that experience and that trust and the knowledge and responsibility at that early age and understanding that you work and you do a good job and you're rewarded. And so it was nice. It was a good way to have a relationship with our dad, I think also. But I also would add that, you know, I grew up with my dad running a restaurant. And so until I started working there, he was at the restaurant a lot.
00:03:44
Speaker
And so Christmas, holidays, you know, he's at the restaurant and then home and up there a lot. And so there was some of that, like understanding that, oh, if you run this business, are you going to be busy all the time and you won't be able to have life outside of that? Or, you know, is it so rewarding? But I mean, my parents were both good role models. My mom always felt like she needed to work to show that the mom could have something outside of being a mom as well.
00:04:10
Speaker
She grew up in the 50s. My parents are a little bit older and their role models were a little different. And if you weren't married by like 21 with kids on the way, it was like old spinster aunt, you know? And so I think it was important for her to see that you could have more than just being a mom or more than just being a wife or more than just have a career. So that was helpful.
00:04:32
Speaker
Yes, that's such an interesting way to grow up. And I'm curious because you did grow up with this family business, but decided to pursue more of this creative academic path instead. So look at Black, what do you think appealed to you more about the life that you were going after as it relates to well-being? Was that a factor? Just kind of looking at how much time your dad maybe spent at work, do you think that factored in?
00:04:58
Speaker
I mean, I look back now and I can say yes, like, oh my God, he worked too hard. Like that was too much and that was all that he did. But at the time you just kind of see it as like, this is what your parents do. And I have a daughter taking a gap year this year from college. I have a senior in high school and I have a sophomore in high school. I don't know if any of them know what they want to do with their lives, you know? And so I think like when I was working for my dad and not knowing what to do and going to college for that first year, it was just like, I don't know, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to go off to college and get a job somewhere.
00:05:28
Speaker
I don't know even if I thought about like, oh, I should run my own business. Or
Founding The Nest Collective
00:05:33
Speaker
will I work for somebody? And our dad always said, I don't want any of you kids to take this over unless it wasn't going to be like, OK, I'm done. Here's the restaurant. It was always go off and do your thing. So because that was important for both of my parents. Again, they were like 36 and 45 when they met. And so they had both lived like lots.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah. And so I find it interesting too, because now as I'm reflecting back, my dad was a farmer. And so super hard work ethic and worked all the time. But I'm thinking back too, it's like when I graduated, I also never even considered going out on my own really. It was just like, OK, I go to school and I get a job at a company. If I remember reading your pre-questionnaire correctly, you actually did that. You started in the corporate world.
00:06:22
Speaker
I did. Did I get that right? Okay, so what was it like working in the corporate ad agency world? Okay, so I went to college for a year, didn't know what I was doing, stopped skiing, stopped school, lived in Boulder for a year, worked at a bakery, which wasn't a big jump because I baked for my dad at the restaurant. But then when I went to MSU, I was either going to go into art education or graphic design.
00:06:45
Speaker
And I think part of my background of like seeing my parents work was like, oh wait, I need to have a
Learning from Legal Challenges and Stress Management
00:06:52
Speaker
job when I get out of college. If I graduate in art education, what's like, where does funding get cut when schools have to, you know, it's like art, okay, graphic design, I can always get a job doing that. And it seemed like fun. Art school is awesome. I loved art school.
00:07:06
Speaker
And so I worked also, I skied for MSU when I went to college here, and then I also worked at the little graphics office in the Strad Union building. And so I was able to get some experience as I was going through college, and it was always going to be getting a job somewhere.
00:07:24
Speaker
You know, and like when you get out of art school, there's so many of my fellow students that were like painters and ceramics or sculpture. And I always like, how are they going to get a job? They're going to have to like really sell themselves. I'm going to go get a job. And so there was just that different feeling of like, no, I'm doing something. And I have friends from college that are fantastic artists and I admire and I'm jealous that they were able to do that and make that work. And I'm like working in an office on a computer.
00:07:54
Speaker
to late at night, getting projects done because there's a presentation due tomorrow, you know. Yes. Yes. Well, and that I'm wondering as you look back on your time in the agency, if there were some of those roller coasters that started then with that first kind of traditional job and what you remember about that, because you were in a very different place in your life than you are now.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah, a very different place and very new and green to it all. I started part-time and after a couple months they brought me on full-time and that was at Mercury Advertising here in Bozeman. They'd only been open for a couple of years but they were kind of a rising ad agency in the state and starting to pick up bigger clients.
00:08:35
Speaker
But I was doing front work. It was like back in the day of everything was print ads. And so you'd have, you know, you'd present your three print ads to your client and they'd approve them. And then, okay, production artists, me, you know, we need you to resize this for 16 different magazines.
00:08:51
Speaker
And oh my gosh, and they're due in three days. And because we were still sending like, you had to get film made? Like you didn't just send a PDF. You had to go take your file, collect it all on a disc, take it down to color roll to wherever and they'd get film made of your CMYK builds. And then you'd get a, you know, it's just like insane. You're looking at print proofs in person. You're doing color comparisons. Yeah. And like my, I think I was there for a year and they sent me to Salt Lake to do a press check on dog food bags and.
00:09:20
Speaker
Wow. And press checks are like in the middle of the night and I'm like brand new at it. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. And it's on this lexicography printing, which looks like this Dr. Seuss print and everything's changing. And it's like three in the morning. And I'm like, I don't know, but the colors just don't look right. And you know, the pressure of trying to get it right for your company and feeling young and very like, I don't know what I'm doing.
00:09:42
Speaker
And that was stressful. I mean, I remember being just like, this is my least favorite part of this job. Press checks were terrible. And yeah, it was super stressful. But you know, I was young, and it was my first job. And we were doing fun stuff. And it was a fun group. And we'd go out for drinks after work. And everybody was funny. And it was a good time. And we'd go to Bridger for the day. Or we did work for Big Sky Resort back then. And we'd get tickets and go ski. And so it was this weird, like, super stress, lots of work, but super fun.
00:10:12
Speaker
So, yes, I can totally relate to that. That is definitely my corporate experience as well, where it kind of feels like at that point in your life when you have a bit more energy than I'm speaking for myself only than I do now, you know, a little bit more. Yeah, a little bit more. It almost made up for the fact that it was stressful and long hours and all of that because you were having a good time most of the time.
00:10:38
Speaker
And so that was something that I took away from it too. It wasn't all like I need to escape from corporate in every single way. It was like there was a lot of good stuff there and I could deal with the stress more easily because I liked the people that I worked with or I liked the projects I was on.
00:10:57
Speaker
So even though we've become more mature about a lot of aspects of our work and life, hopefully, maybe. Yeah, a little bit. There is still that lesson, I think, of if you're enjoying who you're working with and projects that you're on, you can do it. It makes a big difference, I think, on the well-being side of things.
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah. I had the same experience in the nonprofit space, large national nonprofit, but same thing. Work hard, play hard, right? That whole mantra comes from something. And I think when you're younger, you just do it. And obviously, there's shifts that happen.
00:11:29
Speaker
a young person entering into that world now may or may not want to participate in that like stress and that like, yeah, I'm working 55, 60 hours a week. We have a presentation to do. It doesn't matter. It's due tomorrow. You got to work and get it done. I think back on the late nights getting like proposals ready for client, you know, it's just like,
00:11:46
Speaker
I was thinking, what were we doing? But yeah, I mean, it was fun. Super creative people. We did really good work. Award-winning, great work. I learned so much. But yeah, getting ready for a presentation, that would have been a semester senior project in two weeks. And you're like, OK, yes, I can do this. Sure. Yep, doing it. Doing it. Yeah.
00:12:08
Speaker
I want to go into you said you didn't know what you're doing in your first career. But let's talk about another place where most of us don't know what the heck we're doing. So motherhood, one of my other favorite topics. I still don't know what I'm doing. I know it changes because they change that it changes and they're all different. It's crazy. Yeah.
00:12:27
Speaker
Okay, but you kind of, because of your kids, transitioned into freelance work, right? So tell us the story of how you got into it and then did you anticipate the ups and downs or maybe not a full-time motherhood in freelance work? No, I don't know what I was thinking. I don't know what happened. All of a sudden I've got these kids.
00:12:44
Speaker
No, we so let's see my husband and I we graduated from college here at MSU He got a job before we graduated. He's a civil engineer and he worked for a firm in town for about 25 years He actually just took a new job. So and then I got the job. So that was in the spring I started working at Mercury in October We got engaged and married within a year and then had kids like two or three years or so and my boss was
00:13:09
Speaker
Both of the owners had both had kids, but nobody else really had kids at the office. And so it wasn't super kid culture because, you know, we were all like in our twenties and going out to ski and party all the time. And so some kids started happening and I had the first kid and I decided to go back four days a week.
00:13:25
Speaker
So she went to daycare four days thinking like, okay, this is going to work. I feel like I need to be home a little bit. I don't want to be a full-time stay-at-home mom because that looks hard, like harder than going to work as hard as work was. It was like, that looks harder. So we did that. And then our first two are 18 months apart. So at nine months, we were pregnant again with our second. And then he came along and then I went like three days a week to work.
00:13:49
Speaker
And I started to feel less connected at work. It was just challenging. I could see that like you start having this weird mommy guilt of like, I'm not doing a good job as a mom, but I'm also not at work all the time. So I'm not getting the projects I want to get. I'm not getting the responsibility. And I mean, I say that out loud and I'm like, that's wrong. Companies shouldn't do that. But it's also like, if you're not there all the time, you can't do the work. And then we decided to have a third kid and
00:14:15
Speaker
about two weeks before she was due, I was just like, I can't believe I'm going to go back to work. Daycare was so expensive. I mean, I think I was pretty burnt out on work at the time also and needed a reason to kind of be done. And so I left thinking like, I'm going to just go home and be a mom and it's going to be awesome. Meanwhile, I'd never really been home with all my children being a mom full time. And that's hard.
00:14:41
Speaker
So because when our youngest was born, our middle was two and our oldest was three and a half. So I had a newborn, a two year old and a three and a half year old. I was like, yeah, I can do this. Uh huh. Yeah, no problem. And my husband was super supportive either way. You know, he was like, if you want to work work, we can make daycare work, whatever. But if you want to come home, do that. Let's do that. We can make that work. And so that was great until our youngest was about six months. And I was just like, oh my God.
00:15:10
Speaker
This is really hard. I need something else to do. And I made it 24 Mondays. 24 staff meeting Mondays before I was like, I need this back.
00:15:22
Speaker
I miss working. I think it was just like, it was what I was familiar with. And it felt comfortable to do some work. And plus, I love my children. And I loved being home with them, but I needed something else. And so that kind of worked out. And I think I'd mentioned that my brother needed some work. He lives in the DC area, and he needed some
00:15:41
Speaker
brochures and things for the company that he worked for. And I was like, yeah, sure, I can do that. And it just kind of like snowballed after that. And what did you find? I'm curious about this kind of feeling of needing something else with the disclaimer of, but I do love my kids, you guys, I swear.
00:15:58
Speaker
Which seems like how it is always phrased because people are like, no, no, no, no, no, I do love them normally, generally speaking broadly. But also, what was it that you were feeling that you weren't getting solely from doing that after six months that you wanted back?
00:16:18
Speaker
I wanted my things back. I wanted the things that I did back a little bit. And part of that was communicating with other grownups and having them request things and I was able to produce things and they were happy with them and they gave me money to do that.
00:16:33
Speaker
Yeah, it was great. It works out great. My kids like me, but they aren't paying me. No, they're taking it. They are taking it. And so I think it was just needing to have a thing for me to be able to have.
00:16:49
Speaker
always felt and I don't know if this is part of my upbringing or what but I always felt like I needed to have to be able to contribute in that way like to feel like contribute to the family in that way financially in that way and just my responsibility and like that was going to make me feel a little more complete to be able to have that.
00:17:06
Speaker
And when I left Mercury, I was like, I am never going to be a freelance graphic designer. If I go back to work, I'm just going to find something else to do. I'm not going to do this. And I remember looking at like going to nursing school or being a teacher. But then it was like, but you already know how to use InDesign. Can you just do this for me and I'll pay you some money? And it's like, OK, yeah, I can do that real quick. And so I think it was having that and being able to like have that thing for me. Yeah, it's a weird way.
00:17:34
Speaker
No, I don't know what all says because yeah, you have kids, you know that like I'm a mom, but I also need to have my thing for me. And honestly, so my first company is an agency. And the first people I hired were two women that I worked with in the nonprofit space who had left to be stay at home up. And I was getting buried. And I had no idea if they wanted something. But the mom and be like, I see the mom and you.
00:18:03
Speaker
You know, like some weird magic mom. I was like, I'm just gonna call them. I was like, do you want just a little bit of something? Just, you know, 10 hours a week to help me take some of this off my plate that would give you something else to focus on. And both of them were like, this is an answer to my prayers. Like they were like, I've been wishing on a start for this. And it was like, you just need something to take your brain into a different space. So what you're saying completely resonates with me. And I think it makes sense to a lot of other people.
00:18:33
Speaker
for me personally transitioning out of the I just call it corporate because it was still like Monday through Friday nine to five job was so that I could have some more flexibility as we started to have children because I've seen people try to not do that and you have to have external support you have to have
00:18:51
Speaker
family around or an au pair or a nanny. I've seen all, you know, obviously daycare, but even just a flexible adult, especially as they start going to daycares and getting sick in schools and days off. It's gross. How do you do it if one parent isn't flexible? So we made the decision
00:19:10
Speaker
for me to do that to kind of be that flexible parent. So what was it like in the beginning when you went back and you started freelancing, doing the design? He said your husband was supportive, but were you guys fully aware of that decision, weighing the pros and cons of you staying at home versus going to work? What were some of those conversations actually like? Are you fully aware of any decisions you've made in your life? Like, have you really gone through and like, let me pro and con this out and then decide.
00:19:38
Speaker
Well, sometimes we do. Sometimes. Now that we're adults. Now that we're adults. Sometimes. No, not at all. I mean, I think it was an emotional thing when I left. I just remember being pregnant with the third kid and having two others and just like in tears like, oh, we can't afford, this is silly for me. Like I can't go to work. I can't pay this much money to like make not even hardly enough to pay for that to like, so there was like financial decisions, emotional,
00:20:07
Speaker
I think I was just exhausted. Third pregnancy, been working. So no. I mean, there was no conscious like, let's think through this. It was just like, yeah, we can do this. Let's do this. OK. And then going back and taking on work, I think I remember like, hey, Carl wants me to do some work for him. Oh, yeah, that's cool. And doing it. And then within six months, it was like, oh, do you want this catalog that's going to be six months worth of work that will pay this much? And blah, blah, blah. And it's like, uh, yeah.
00:20:35
Speaker
That's like 1,200 pairs of shoes for kids. Yes, I need it. Thank you. I'm still in the diaper mode. That's 7,000 diapers, actually. But it's a lot. It's a lot. And it was pretty mellow. So let's see. I would work when our youngest was napping. They all kind of napped around the same time. And then when the oldest
00:20:58
Speaker
started kindergarten, I was able to, like by then I'd been doing that for about a year, year and a half-ish. And the other two, I actually went back into daycare for like two partial days with a friend of mine who would be great to have on your podcast also, who like, it's like a daycare dynasty in town. So the kids got in and did some daycare and I was able to work a little bit.
00:21:21
Speaker
I was working enough that it made sense like, oh, okay. But Mallory, to your point, I totally agree. One of the parents has to be a floater. Because when you have kids, someone's always sick, someone always forgot something, you're making lunches. If you do activities and you kind of whatever after, even just getting to school and like this, that and the other thing. And so in the grand scheme of things, I think it was very nice to have
00:21:45
Speaker
me available to do a lot of those things and then Kevin would fill in where he needed to or you know if things were going on and but it was just it's hard for me to relate to a full-time stay-home parent because I am just like how do you do that I don't know like that's amazing that's awesome but I also don't know how you like have two full-time working parents as part of it also so for us the balance just worked out but if we thought through it all no we just are like let's do this okay great
00:22:14
Speaker
OK, great. She's crying. What can we do to make her stop crying? Great. Let's do that. Yeah. Love what you're hearing? Business Unbound online courses help you implement the ideas from this show and change how your company runs in big and small ways for the better. Our courses are meticulously crafted, packed with tactical tools and solutions, and designed to help women genuinely enjoy the day-to-day business journey.
00:22:42
Speaker
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00:23:11
Speaker
So the structure that you're describing of needing to have a parent be more flexible, which is obviously something Mallory has experienced as well. I'm guessing that when you decided to start the Nest Collective, that played a part in how you structured it or envisioned it. And so I'd love to hear about that early phase of starting that and what that was like.
00:23:37
Speaker
So the nest was kind of a funny how it came about. So I started doing freelance on my own for I guess about six years. And then my accountant's husband works for the city and he needed someone to do some stuff for the trash and blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, yeah, great. I can do that. And
00:23:52
Speaker
brought on my friend Kendra, who I had worked with at Mercury also, and was like, Kendra, I need a project manager. This just looks like too much for me to manage. And I know with past experience, when I have to manage a project, I have a hard time being creative. I was like, I don't want to do this. So the City of Bozeman Public Works
00:24:07
Speaker
needed a communications team to do some outreach and education and between Kendra and I we did not want to take it on individually within our own because she had a company at the time also I had a company and they needed some like PR sort of realm to what they needed and so there was another gal Becky who we worked with at Mercury and we're all friends with Kira because we all work with Kira at the same time too. So the three of us were like what if we make a company
00:24:32
Speaker
to take on this city project and then none of us are liable for it. We have to have insurance, which is a good thing to have insurance for your company because that comes in later when you get sued. And so together we formed the nest and it was kind of just a side project for all of us to work on getting this city project, which we got. Then we've had picked up some other clients and things and we continue to do work for the city now, which is kind of fun. But yeah, so we started with the nest and we were all like,
00:25:02
Speaker
moms that worked at Mercury that all had specific skill sets and we all got along really well. And just three amazing women, very intelligent, very creative. So, yeah, with lots of good, you know, and we brought Kira on and she did lots of content for us up front there and helping write copy and just bringing it all, doing what Kira does so magically. And yeah, and so that's been going for
00:25:28
Speaker
I don't even remember what I said, six or eight years or so. And then my kids were all in school. And so they were all Monday through Friday, 8 30 to 3 30 at school. And so I was able to have that like, I work five hours a day kind of thing. And that started to like calm things down just with like chaos of having little ones at home. And we were able to do some really fun work for the city. And we still do that now.
00:25:54
Speaker
So, Kira just for everyone listening is who connected us to Robin to close the loop on that if everyone's wondering who this magical Kira is. She's fabulous and has a huge network of entrepreneur women in postman. But I want to know so as somebody who's just started a business with a close friend, Nicole.
00:26:14
Speaker
I'm curious. Are there challenges that came up with this new partnership with you and these other two women? Because we are here to talk about the roller coasters. What were some of those challenges that maybe we can be on the lookout for? So I would love to be like, oh my God, it was a cat fight. You should have seen it. It was crazy. But it hasn't been like that at all. We're glad. We're glad it's not like that.
00:26:37
Speaker
Becky and Kendra are amazing and they're both very smart and creative and fair. Like we're all very fair. We went into this with just like, okay, we're equal partners. How are we going to do this? Yeah, this works. This works. Let's just kind of be casual about it. You know, we all share an accountant and so that was like from the business side, like, okay, what do we need to do? And it was like, check this list off. And we all have such different skill sets.
00:27:00
Speaker
with what we do well that we work really well together and we have been able to be on the same page with a lot of things. I mean the roller coasters have come with challenges through work where you know like new creative how do we solve this or we have this client that's not being very nice what do we want to do do we want to fire them so you know like
00:27:19
Speaker
Those have been the challenges, and between the three of us, we're able to just support each other through it. And we've all had stuff going on. They were there to support me through the loss of my father and some other things that have happened over the years. We were there with Becky when she had some things going on, and Kendra when she was going in and out of things. And so we've all been able to balance each other out really well. And it just has worked. And I think it's because we respect each other so much.
00:27:49
Speaker
can see the talent that each brings to the table. Well, and it speaks also to I think the emotional maturity that you all have, the way that you went into it with eyes open on what this means to be working together, the fact that you chose people that you respect.
00:28:07
Speaker
And I think that all just lessens the amount of roller coasters that you can't control, which is a good thing to just keep in mind. So I'm wondering how your approach to the mental wellbeing side of life and work has evolved over time. So like you said, you've had this for, you know, eight years, you were freelancing before that, but
00:28:30
Speaker
I'm wondering how you have seen that evolve over time for yourself. Yeah, good question. I think a lot of it is just partially by maturing as a mom, as a woman, as an entrepreneur, as a graphic designer, and the other worlds too, as a friend, as a partner, and all that.
00:28:51
Speaker
When I was working in the agency, I was young and I just did what I was told and that meant you worked hard and late nights and if it didn't work, you felt bad and somebody else had to do it. I also learned early that I can't take personally if somebody doesn't like the work that I produce. If I create my graphic design and put it out there and somebody doesn't like it, that doesn't mean they don't like me.
00:29:13
Speaker
And, you know, it might be that they don't like how the font looks or the colors or the design, you know, and that's fine. It's a bummer sometimes when you're like, oh, I worked really hard on that. Yeah. But I've learned to not take that personally. I've also learned that like.
00:29:26
Speaker
Life is short. I'm a graphic designer. I get to like put pictures and letters and words and put it on a page and make magazines and catalogs for people. It's not rocket science. I really love what I do. I'm really passionate about communicating and making sure that the audience is understanding what we're trying to put out there.
00:29:44
Speaker
But as far as like the well-being and like my emotions and being comfortable and being happy, I've learned that like there has to be balance. Like I can't just work all the time. I carved this like, oh, I like to run or ski or go work out. So I got to make sure to get that into my day. I don't schedule meetings when I know that, you know, I always go to the gym this time or go for a run or whatever I have.
00:30:07
Speaker
other friends that I run with that aren't my work people, I have other things. And I think just not taking ourselves too seriously is really important. We're just people. If we can all get along, then it makes things better, whether you are running a company or you're working for somebody or doing your own thing. So I just try and not make it that big of a deal.
00:30:31
Speaker
And that has helped. Yes, perspective. Yes, certainly some perspective. And I had a stressful period with some deaths in my family that was really hard and Kendra and Becky were there to support and fill in for me when I needed it. And obviously my family too and my husband and my kids and everything. But so I think finding that balance with people that you work with that you are able to, if someone's here and you're here, then you can like come together and work together on that.
00:30:59
Speaker
I like Brené Brown. She's talked a bit about her like, I come in and I tell my husband, I'm at 80%. And he's like, great, because I'm at 20, you know, or whatever. And I'm like, that's a really good way to look at this. Like, yes, when so using that in the work world has been like, okay, I can see that you are swamped. What can I do to help and to know that these people have my back if I need it also has been so that's been very helpful.
00:31:23
Speaker
I did, you know, after my father died, I started seeing a therapist and that was super helpful. I think everybody needs to get therapist in their life and going in and out of that as needed and just being able to ask for help because being able to like, I can't do this. I need some help right now. You know, whether it's, I need some help with the kids. I need some help with work. I need some help with my emotions. I need some help. So.
00:31:47
Speaker
And I was going to say that too when you were chatting about how your work partners were willing to step up. That partially only happens when you are willing to ask them, right? When you are not just trying to tough it out, right? Because so many people really have great support networks that don't get used, which is unfortunate.
00:32:08
Speaker
And so it's giving yourself the permission to say, you know what, I don't have anything this week and I need you to take this or I'm in this place or I'm at 20% or however you decide to phrase it with your supporters. But then giving them the chance to step up for you, I think is really important. And then you have more confidence that they would do the same again and you'll be happy to do it for them.
00:32:33
Speaker
Oh, for sure. It gives them a way also to show their gratitude for that relationship. So it's always like you feel badass for help, but if we can flip it and think, well, we're actually giving them an opportunity to exactly very hard. Yes.
00:32:51
Speaker
Well, and I do go back to growing up with my dad, you know, my parents having the restaurant. And I mean, my dad just worked hard all the time. There was just like, you work, you work, you work, you work. And part of that is like, yeah, building a good work ethic. And I see that and I see how important that is. But it took me a long time to undo the like, just endure and just work and get through it. It has taken me a while to like, oh, I can take a step back. I can like, you know what, I just can't today or
00:33:17
Speaker
And so, and I say that I try and practice that I'm getting better at it, but I still like, nope, I'll just take care of it. Well, you know, realizing that by taking a step back, that is what helps you endure, right? I think that's the irony is that it's not just giving 200% when you feel awful. It's saying, you know what, if I took a half a day right now, would I be able to do this tomorrow? Yeah, I'd be in a better place to do this tomorrow.
00:33:43
Speaker
For sure. So you kind of breezed over the topic of being sued. I'm curious if you would talk about that because we have not talked about that yet on the show. And I think it's, well, I don't know if it's on the back of other people's minds, but as an entrepreneur, I have thought about it before. And we do preach to have business insurance.
00:34:05
Speaker
And I would be super appreciative if you'd be open to discussing what that was like and what helped. And just that whole emotional roller coaster of that, I'm sure was a huge one. That was big. So this was, I guess it was like 2018. So in order for us to submit and try and get the city account, we had to have business insurance. You know, you have to have liability.
00:34:29
Speaker
to get certain. Some clients, it doesn't matter. Some when you're a sole proprietor or you can get like workman's comp exemptions when you just are yourself and things. But for the three of us to form the LLC, we needed the business insurance. So we called up our accountant, said, hey, who do we call for business insurance? And so she put us in touch with someone. We got business insurance. I've had it the whole time. We're totally licensed with the city, blah, blah, blah, whatever, have the account. So we were brought on to do some education for a campaign ballot issue.
00:34:57
Speaker
And there was an RFP to do the education for the ballot issue and we submitted an RFP through the city and we were awarded the contract. And so we created materials to educate for a ballot issue and it passed, which is great. So we did our job, we did good work and were successful and somebody in the community felt like it was
00:35:19
Speaker
too good that we were marketing and advertising. And he felt that it was wrong for the city to be using taxpayer dollars to advertise for this. And so it was really weird, because instead of just suing the city, he sued us also. We were named. And as the agency, even though we were contracted by the city to do it, it was all legit how we got the account. And we put educational materials, and we had them approved by the commissioner on campaign material stuff.
00:35:48
Speaker
And so we were sort of just, oh, in the headlights, like, what just happened here? And so we were like, what do we do? I mean, we were like, served papers. Like, Kendra is the name on all our stuff. And she was like, oh my God. It hurts my heart. I hate everything. I hate all of it.
00:36:07
Speaker
And we're like texting them all because we're like, oh my God, we found out we're getting sued. And then we found out we're going to get served papers. And we're like, what does that look like? And Kendra's like, you know, texts us one morning. She's like, well, it was in the bathrobe with my coffee, answered the door. And there's somebody there with papers. And the city was involved. And so the insurance, it's like medical insurance, you know? And they get someone in network for you. So we had a lawyer come over from Missoula that was listed on our insurance. And he came over and
00:36:33
Speaker
talked us through stuff. And from our point of view, we were like, oh my God, this is such a big deal. And the city's like, ah, we get sued all the time. And we're like, oh, we don't. But we don't. This is a big deal for us. This is stressful. And what's going to happen? And in the end, it worked out fine. And the city settled. And part of settling was that the guy who brought the case up had to pay our legal fees too, or I don't even remember.
00:37:03
Speaker
Again, from our point of view, we were just like, what in the actual, we've never done it. This is like scary and everything. And so, I mean, the whole experience was just kind of bizarre. So that happened right after the election was in 2018 in the fall. We got sort of papers like right after Thanksgiving and by March it was going to trial and like they actually went to court. I was on spring break with my family and they're like texting me.
00:37:30
Speaker
It was just bizarre like this triggers my nervous system big time and I wasn't even there So literally, how did you manage the stress? It was just such a bizarre
00:37:43
Speaker
slow-moving catastrophe train. Because anything in the legal system is slow. And you're just like, what do we need to do? Oh my god, is he gonna go, you know, and like, and the process is so slow that it just like would draw out and we still had to do work. And again, like for us, it was a big deal. And everybody else named is like, whatever, we get sued all the time, you know, and we're like, that doesn't make me feel better.
00:38:05
Speaker
Right. And the whole like legal counsel thing was interesting because we didn't get to choose who we were going to use for legal counsel. And so we had reached out to a woman we knew in town who was awesome, total badass lawyer. And, you know, and she was like, OK, well, this is this and this is what's going to happen. But you can retain me, but you'll have to pay me. So you might as well use your insurance because your insurance will pay this guy. But, you know, then you get into like, this is things that drive me crazy, too. You know, that it's this older lawyer dude and
00:38:33
Speaker
He's like, OK, girls, tell me what happened. And we're like, excuse me. Oh, no. Oh, no. Scored on the girls. Yes, small potatoes, what their experience is. But for us, it was very late. Right. Over to this. And have you found that, you know, we talked about perspective before, but is it now that you find some things that would have felt like a roller coaster before? And now you're like, remember that time we got sued? This is nothing like that. You know, does it just kind of roll off?
00:39:03
Speaker
It all just rolls off. I mean, it's all just like, it all just keeps happening. You just keep like the train keeps going and every once in a while you get off on the crazy train and then you jump back on. But yes, I look back and I'm like, oh my God, remember we got sued for that because we did too good of work. We're like, can we use his quote as a testimonial on it? Right. Yes. Because he's like, they used really intelligent slick marketing materials. We're like, yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Wow.
00:39:32
Speaker
Have you found, especially when it's like, it's hard to separate, I think, step outside of that when you're in the moment to be like, oh, it isn't that serious, you know, or it's not the big deal like that would spiral me, I know. But have you found any other tactics, like focusing on other things, like things outside of work? How have those things outside of work, those tools and tactics help you manage these emotional roller coasters?
00:40:00
Speaker
I mean, I think a big one is it's like, Oh, I had three kids in middle school and high school at the time that have like their needs. And it's like, I can't think about that. I got to like get you new ski equipment because that broke, or we're getting you to a race this weekend, or how are we going to take care of this or that? And so I think it's just understanding that like not one aspect of my life is taking over everything else.
00:40:22
Speaker
You know, like there's always other things. There's always something else that is happening. I can't get all wrapped around the axle on that because I have to feed my kids still or my husband. I have this thing that we're going to do or whatever. So, I mean, it was easy to be very stressed about that kind of thing. But, you know, it's the same though with dealing with their aging parents or dealing with, you know, launching kids out into the world. You know, there's like, there's so much more going on than just this one little part of my life right now. So, yes.
00:40:52
Speaker
And is that something that, you know, we talked about letting your support network help you. Is that something that you feel like over the years you have explained to those who support you? Like here's how I actually feel about stressful situations. Here is how I want to show up. Do you feel like they can now mirror that back to you? Like it may be mostly your husband or like your close business friends, but are there now people that know how you want to show up and you feel like you're a little bit more accountable for doing that?
00:41:20
Speaker
I think so. I think this is part of the practice of being who we are too, you know, and being able to share that, show that vulnerability of like, I'm having a lot of anxiety right now over this and this and this. Can you help me with this? Or I don't feel comfortable doing that. Or I do feel really comfortable doing that. And I think it's just like learning to communicate that more.
00:41:40
Speaker
I'm working on being able to communicate those things out because I typically would be like, I have a lot of anxiety and so I'm just going to endure and keep doing this and everything explodes. But being able to like, this is making me really anxious about this or I am uncomfortable about that. And so I'm trying and again, I say these things out loud and I'm like,
00:41:59
Speaker
Oh yeah, in my head I think that. Am I really practicing that? I know. I'm hearing you. I am hearing you. I keep trying. I think it's good that in the moment when you can recognize it and be like, who in the world is this person showing up right now? Like, this is not authentic Nicole right now. Like, I don't know what's happening here, but that's not right. And then I usually pivot straight to, you know, self-loathing or guilt. Very healthy.
00:42:25
Speaker
trying to pivot away from that again, but being like, okay, at least I'm recognizing that in these types of situations, here's how I'm tempted to show up, but here's what I want to do, and to just kind of work on building a new mental highway for that, to be like, next time I reach this point, I'm going to go this way. Going left didn't work out, and just getting more mature about it, whatever that looks like for you.
00:42:51
Speaker
Yes. And that is definitely where I am trying to focus some efforts on like, typically, I would go here. And you know what, I think I need to go here. So yes, or I'm anticipating at that event that this makes me uncomfortable. So I'm going to pivot and do something different. I'm going to consciously like try and change. Yeah. So
00:43:12
Speaker
Yes. It all starts with self-awareness. So I think that we should give ourselves grace there if you're recognizing it. Yeah. That's where it starts. And then you start recognizing these patterns and it's not going to be like just a switch that you get to turn on and off. It's going to take time. Like you said, you got to develop those new neural pathways. Yeah. It's a lot of old muscle memory. That's the way you've done them.
00:43:33
Speaker
Take a breath. We're doing great. It has its challenges though. I mean, dealing, yeah, having kids, the teenagers at home and just did this phase of life for us in our later forties, transitions that happened there that you may or may not have any control over and just learning to go with the flow. I can't fight a lot of things that I felt like I used to be able to fight internally. And so trying to be at peace with some of all that's going on.
00:44:00
Speaker
Yes. And a lot of it, you know, I've tried to think this week, different phrases come to mind every week, but I've been trying this week to just be like, is this useful? Like, is this thing that I am worried about useful? Is this way that I'm reacting useful? Is this useful?
00:44:17
Speaker
And if it's not, your brain knows it's not. And as soon as you ask it, it's like, no, of course not. That doesn't make any sense. I'm obviously not going to go look up more details on that online for 40 minutes. No, that's not useful. So just finding those little ways that you could remind your brain to take the path that you're kind of newly creating. Yes. It's good. It's the 2 AM worries that when you do finally wake up and drink your cup of coffee, you're like, what was so worse?
00:44:46
Speaker
Why was I like sweating? Why was the hamster wheel spinning so much? So it's yeah. Okay. So for our fun closer question, before we wrap up, we want to ask you about your favorite support person in running your company and who it is in running our company. Oh, cause I might give me an example.
00:45:11
Speaker
Like Kathy, my accountant who knows everything. I mean, I think I said that in one of the question things like everyone needs a good accountant. Everyone needs a good graphic designer. Everyone needs a good therapist. Everyone needs a good accountant. I don't know. I just feel like you need to have somebody that knows the answer to everything. And Kathy has always seemed to be there to answer and it mostly my business questions of like,
00:45:33
Speaker
What do I do when I blah, blah, blah and like, oh, well you need to become an S corp or you need to do this. So you got to track your stuff that way. Or here's some software to do this. And so, cause nobody teaches you how to run a business. Like, no, like no one has taught me that. I'm like, invoice. How do I invoice? We're going to attempt to tackle that at some point here.
00:45:54
Speaker
But also no one taught us either. No, it's so yeah. And I use something called tiny books for accounting. You know, it's like the like pared down version of QuickBooks. I use, I do use some accounting software to track time and invoice and stuff, but you know, if I didn't have Kathy, I'd be like, quarterly is what are quarterly?
00:46:11
Speaker
Right. Right. Estimates to where? Yeah. Yes. You know, and she's the one that, you know, she found a business lawyer. She found, you know, she was the one that got us like the connection on the insurance. And so she's just been helpful and that's nice. So. Thank you, Kathy. Thanks, Kathy.
00:46:29
Speaker
I love it. Well, thank you very much for talking with us about the roller coasters, because this is definitely something that Mallory and I spend a lot of time chatting about personally, professionally, all the things, but having someone else share things that relate to both of us. You know, Mallory is a working mom, me as an anxious delight.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah. Make anxiety your friend. Make anxiety your friend. We are BFFs. Spend a lot of time together every single day. But I think it gives people a sense of hope, a little bit more perspective. And like you said, just the ability to be a bit more vulnerable and see that as an example in you is huge because enduring is not the goal. That's not the goal.
00:47:15
Speaker
So we want to be actually enjoying this journey. And I think you have shown people some really wonderful ways to do that. So thank you for joining us and we will continue these chats next week.
00:47:30
Speaker
Thanks for listening. Hop over to UnboundBoss.com to join our community and leave us a voice memo. We absolutely love hearing from you. If you like the podcast, please subscribe, leave us an Apple review, and share your favorite episodes with other women entrepreneurs. Talk to you soon.