Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
One on One - Liz Aceves
241 Plays2 years ago
In this episode, Gretchen Crowder interviews Liz Aceves.
Ignatian Spirituality has been enriching Liz Aceves’ spiritual journey since 2015. Liz has regularly contributed to Becky Eldredge’s Inner Chapel community, Into the Deep blog series, and is now leading the Ignatian Ministries Spiritual Book Club. One of her greatest sources of joy and community is facilitating the Inner Chapel Prayer group, surrounded by inspirational women. As a member of her parish’s Ignatian ministry, Liz supports virtual and in-person retreats for anyone wanting to grow in their relationship with God. Liz is a passionate Catholic school educator with a decade of experience teaching Spanish. Her love for working with children and teaching them about their faith and language has been a constant source of inspiration. She believes learning new languages is essential to fostering acceptance and understanding among people of different cultures. Liz is a devoted wife and mother of two teenage boys who enjoys reading historical nonfiction novels, cooking, traveling, and hiking.
---
If this episode hits home and you feel you have your own story to share, email Gretchen at lovedasyouarepod@gmail.com.
Follow along and contribute to the conversation @lovedasyouarepod on Instagram.
Find more from Gretchen Crowder @gdcrowder as well as at gretchencrowder.com.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Loved As You Are, an Ignatian podcast with me, Gretchen Crowder.
Global Events and Human Experience
00:00:06
Speaker
In the last couple weeks since I published an episode, many things have been happening around the globe, like the Vatican Synod, where a wide variety of people have come together to put into practice what it means to be a discerning, listening church.
Joy and Grief in Life
00:00:22
Speaker
And like the war in Israel and Palestine that has caused and continues to cause much devastation, loss,
00:00:30
Speaker
and profound grief. There's a very short poem by Mary Oliver that has come to my mind again and again over the last couple of weeks. It goes like this. We shake with joy, we shake with grief. What a time they have. These two housed as they are in the same body. I don't know about you, but I feel that way a little right now. Experiencing in real time the weaving together of joy and grief,
00:01:00
Speaker
as I navigate the complexity of this world and as human beings that occupy it. Continuing to have and publish conversations about being loved as you are seems to me a helpful step on this complicated journey we are all taking as I continue to learn so much from the diversity of voices that give their time to share their stories and understanding of God with me and you.
Meet Liz Aceves
00:01:25
Speaker
So today I bring you my conversation with Liz Aceves.
00:01:29
Speaker
Ignatian spirituality has been enriching Liz's spiritual journey since 2015. She has regularly contributed to Becky Eldridge's inner chapel community, into the Deep Blog series, and is now leading the Ignatian Ministries Spiritual Book Club.
00:01:46
Speaker
One of her greatest sources of joy and community is facilitating the inner chapel prayer group, surrounded by inspirational women. As a member of her parish's Ignatian ministry, Liz supports virtual and in-person retreats for anyone wanting to grow in their relationship with God. Liz is a passionate Catholic school educator with a decade of experience teaching Spanish.
00:02:08
Speaker
Her love for working with children and teaching them about their faith and language has been a constant source of inspiration. She believes learning new languages is essential to fostering acceptance and understanding among people of different cultures.
00:02:23
Speaker
Liz is a devoted wife and mother of two teenage boys who enjoys reading historical nonfiction novels, cooking, traveling, and hiking. I'm so glad you're here to take this journey alongside Liz and I, as we wrestle with what it means to be loved as we are, no matter what. You won't want to miss a minute. So?
The Inner Chapel Community
00:03:22
Speaker
Welcome Liz to the podcast. I'm so excited that you're on with me today. I was thinking before I logged on that I wasn't sure if we had ever met or had conversations, but then when I was looking at how you run the inner chapel community meetings,
00:03:40
Speaker
I think perhaps we were in a couple of those meetings together right at the beginning in the pandemic where Becky Eldridge was launching a new book and she started us into a prayerful community. And I remember being on some of those phone calls and I think we were on some of those phone calls together. And then I stopped showing up and you started running it. So it's great that that still continues. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what that is, the Interchapel community?
00:04:07
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me for your invitation. I'm really happy to be here. A little bit about Inner Chapel, as you said, Inner Chapel community started with the launch of Becky's Eldridge book. And yes, definitely we did meet each other and we worked together in some of those meetings on Fridays. And well, you know, it's interesting. This has been coming up a lot in the last few weeks.
00:04:35
Speaker
the inner chapel and how three years later we're still meeting. We were not ready once everything started opening up and we were sort of getting through the pandemic. A group of us, we were not ready to say goodbye. Friendships had been started and connections, the sense of community.
00:04:58
Speaker
And we learn how much we valued praying together every Friday. And yes, we've continued to meet to this day on Fridays. And it's just been such an amazing experience to come together with these amazing women. We all take turns in leading prayer. And it's been such a great foundation for our spiritual journey together. I love the community that it's built among us.
00:05:26
Speaker
And our dream, I think I was talking to Becky about it, is we would love to have more of these prayer groups in the near future. The timing could be obviously a challenge because you're working, going back to work and everything opening up. The timing might not work for everybody, but we're hoping that in the near future, we could offer more prayer groups like this so we could come together and continue this journey.
00:05:55
Speaker
And what a wonderful opportunity to come together with people from all over the country, sometimes from other countries as well, to be able to have that conversation and see that the idea of who God is to you, you have some similarities in that, as well as differences that y'all can learn from. Definitely. You hit it right on the head, saying we're from across the country, from the world,
00:06:22
Speaker
And that it doesn't matter the distance, the time zones, because at the end of the day, we all have that same core value of our beliefs and our faith that brings us together. And we are like-minded women that were there to support each other and that the distance, the time difference does not matter. You know, we support each other through prayer sometimes,
00:06:50
Speaker
you know, we'll text each other, can you talk? And yes, you know, what's going on? And that has been so special to see how those friendships have developed. So when Becky decided, okay, it's time to have in-person retreats, and we were so grateful for that, we came together two years ago for the first time, and we were able to meet each other, and it was just, it's been wonderful. Total blessing.
00:07:19
Speaker
It's amazing how we meet each other first online these days before we meet each other in person. It's just kind of the way the world works, but such a great opportunity to do
Teaching and Spiritual Growth
00:07:29
Speaker
so. And then in your bio that I read to the listeners before you came on, I explained that you were also a Catholic educator, which is something else that we have in common. I've been in Catholic education my whole life, but teaching for the last 20 years. How long have you been a Catholic educator and what grades do you teach?
00:07:46
Speaker
So I teach middle school, fifth through eighth grade, and I teach Spanish. A lot of times when I say I am a middle school Spanish teacher, I get this, oh, I'm so sorry. Oh my God, how do you do it? And, you know, I love that age group. Yes, it could be challenging. Absolutely. But they're just
00:08:09
Speaker
They're figuring things out and they need so much love and guidance and they're so funny and just so loving. My birthday just passed and I felt so blessed. They made me feel so loved. I had a group of seventh grade girls, like five of them, they know I love bracelets.
00:08:31
Speaker
and they made bracelets for me. And I had like seven bracelets and they're like super colorful and like, you know what? I'm wearing them all, right? And for me, those are like God-given moments, right? Where we've learned through Ignatian spirituality that God is in everything, right? In everyone. And I'm like, yes, absolutely. This wrist is full of bracelets. It's that God-giving moment, right?
00:08:57
Speaker
So I find a lot of joy in teaching as well as it could be very challenging as you know, but there's those moments where you're like, okay, this is why I'm here.
00:09:10
Speaker
Well, as a parent of a fifth grader, I appreciate you walking with, uh, middle schoolers at that time. And I have, you know, two on the horizon as well. So it's a great age and it's always good to have a wonderful group of support, not only at home, but also at school. So wonderful that you, that you serve students in that way.
00:09:31
Speaker
But I think that leads really well into our first question because you were saying those bracelets, those interactions with students where they show you God really introduces you and gives you, gives you examples of God tangibly alive in the world. So who is God to you and how did you come to that understanding? Many things, but I think the two things that come up for me are
00:10:01
Speaker
I feel like as I was growing up, I didn't know he was always there, but I was raised to believe that there's a God, that we need faith in our life. And as a young teenager, adult, you start reflecting back and thinking, you've always been there. You've always been my companion. You've always walked with me and a healer
00:10:29
Speaker
It's those challenging times in our life where he's just ready to love us and restore us from whatever challenge we are facing in our life. I feel now at this time in my life that I am truly understanding the term, we're not alone.
00:10:55
Speaker
and learning so much through Ignatian spirituality and the teachings of Saint Ignatius and the importance of prayer, that it has allowed me to see that and to truly now not only understand it intellectually, but to make the connection in my heart that
00:11:17
Speaker
Yes, we're never alone and you are always here ready to heal me, to love me is what has kept me grounded in those challenging times in my life and grateful as well as you come through them and you're on the other side, right?
00:11:37
Speaker
Perhaps you just answered this by that idea of God never leaving us alone, but how does your image of God fit with this idea of being loved as we are no matter what? You know, that...
00:11:54
Speaker
had always been a very challenging concept to understand, to truly believe it in my core. Intellectually, I said, yes, my faith, yes, that is very true. But in my heart, I wasn't really feeling it. And I wanted to feel it. So I started doing the exercises to answer your question, the spiritual exercises,
00:12:19
Speaker
And I'm in the second week, the end of the second week of the spiritual exercises, and I feel like I am finally at a point in my life where I'm like, oh, I get it. I am truly starting to get it. That you love me just as I am.
00:12:43
Speaker
with all my past mistakes, with all my failures, my insecurities, you see me and you love me. And that I think has been, and I understand now how when people would talk about, oh, I've done the spiritual exercises, they're life-changing, it's so amazing. And I remember, you know, as I started getting introduced to Ignition Spirituality and learning so much about it, and I would hear people share and talk about it,
00:13:14
Speaker
And it just seemed like such a huge commitment. And I'm like, I don't have time for this. Especially when I first started hearing about them, I was, my kids, gosh, they were young. They were still in elementary school. And I'm like, I don't have time for this. And I remember recently, probably about a year ago or so, my friend Marianne said,
00:13:40
Speaker
And I never forgot that. I said, okay, it'll be in God's time. And definitely, that's exactly how it happened. But now I get it. Yes, it's definitely life-changing and starting to truly build that relationship with Christ and learning who He is. Yeah, it's been, for me, I feel like it's been really life-changing because I always felt when I thought of Jesus, He was so unattainable, right, to follow His example.
00:14:10
Speaker
But our goal is to try our very best to do so, not to be perfect.
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I like how you said that the spiritual exercises find you and it's the right time when you're ready to embark on them. But I also wonder if you found that now that you are embarking on them, that somehow they fit within the context of your busy life. Like what you're learning about yourself through the exercises is somehow fitting within the rest or even enhancing the rest of what you're doing throughout your day.
00:14:43
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I find myself looking forward to that prayer, that quiet time. Every morning the house is completely silent. I have my cup of tea, right? I'm like ready to go and have that time. It absolutely has grounded me. And especially right now where I'm mad at the end of the second week, which is the election, praying about what is my calling.
00:15:12
Speaker
How can I love and serve God and others? Absolutely, it does. It's no accident that I started the spiritual exercises when I did because I am at a time in my life now where our oldest first year in college, our youngest junior in high school, I've been teaching for 12 years. So it's sort of that time like, okay, God, I feel the winds of changing coming. Where are you calling me to?
00:15:42
Speaker
And I feel myself that's where I'm at right now. I feel that I'm being invited to lean in and do more. In my 40s, 30s, I feel like I had this vision like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And everything's lined up and check it off. And now I'm like, okay, it's not what I want, but it's what I'm being led to.
00:16:12
Speaker
Right. And that's definitely a shift in my thinking. Yeah, it seems, you know, at the very beginning of the exercises, there's the first principle and foundation that invites us into Ignatian indifference, the idea that we aren't leaning really to one direction or the other, but we're waiting for God to lead us in one direction or another, and we're kind of okay either way.
00:16:39
Speaker
I found when I completed the exercises a couple years ago, and I had tried three other times, right? You just, you can try and stop. You can get with the wrong spiritual director and another wrong spiritual director and keep going. But eventually you find the right time.
00:16:54
Speaker
But I remember when I finished it, I felt like God was calling me to new things, but I wasn't certain what they were. But I also was ready to say, okay, just tell me what they are and I'll do them. And I think there's sometimes a fear of, well, if I'm open to what God's calling me to, how big is that ask going to be? And are we really ready to say yes when it comes?
00:17:19
Speaker
Yes. Oh, that is so true. I think that's where I feel I'm at right now, where I'm like, do you really want me to go there? But then I'm like, well, okay, don't let somebody else once told me, do not let
00:17:41
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, I just need to keep on trusting, right? And praying for the grace of clarity and trust, knowing that He is leading me to where He wants me to be. Yeah. And if you go back to your who is God definition that you just gave us, you said, you know, God is my companion and is especially there in the most difficult of times.
00:18:07
Speaker
You know, sometimes when we're asked to do something that we feel is out of our abilities or we're uncomfortable with it, it's hard to remember that God's not just going to ask us to do it, but also God's going to be with us along the journey, right? And if God's asking us to do something big, then God, you know, he has that built up graces to help us along with it.
00:18:29
Speaker
I'm still scary though. I am looking there. It is. Oh, for sure. It is. And I've learned so much in these past, I would say probably three years of truly understanding, saying yes, even though you're not sure you should be saying yes, but something in your right is pulling. Well, no, you need to say yes. Yeah.
00:18:53
Speaker
It's that trust and that grace that we're given, for sure.
Ignatian Spirituality in Daily Life
00:18:57
Speaker
Well, and you said you just started the spiritual exercises, but you actually came to know Ignatian spirituality well before that. How did you first come to know Ignatian spirituality? How were you introduced to it? You know, it's interesting. It was probably about, I would say 12 years ago or so, if not longer, a girlfriend of mine at her parish had just started the spiritual exercises.
00:19:23
Speaker
And she was going on and on and raving and how life-changing and how wonderful it was. And it seemed so attractive to me at that time, right? But my kids were so little. And she was talking about she was going every Saturday to, you know, and it was all day. And I'm like, there is no way that I will be able to do that as a young mom. But again, I was like, okay, it sounds so great, but I just can't
00:19:52
Speaker
I started working at Catholic school where I'm teaching. And as part of our annual, you know, special development, we always go, which is awesome, religious congress at Anaheim and the convention center here in California. And I attended Becky Aldrich workshop where she talked about the examine.
00:20:20
Speaker
And she was teaching the attendings how to pray the exam and what it was and who Ignatius of Loyola was. And so that, I say, was my very first introduction to it. And I still actually have the postcard that Becky gave at that workshop. And as she was walking us through it, I was like, wait, I pray kind of similar to this, but
00:20:45
Speaker
to be able to pray in gratitude and to be able to look at those moments of your day where you're like, oh, that was a God-given moment. And those challenging times where you're like, oh, I'm really struggling with this one and know, okay,
00:21:03
Speaker
What do I need to learn from this, right? And then asking for the grace for the next day. And I prayed the exam for such a long time after and it became so intrigued. Like I wanted to learn more. I wanted to learn more about who Ignatius of Loyola was and his methods of praying. And yeah, I felt like that was my first invitation to knowing how to pray differently.
00:21:28
Speaker
learning about contemplative prayer, learning about what the Lexus Divina is and how to pray with scripture. And I almost feel like I, yeah, I just, I felt like a little kid, like I just wanted to learn and learn and learn.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, I found that and I first learned about nation spirituality 17 years ago, but when I did it felt like the kind of spirituality that spoke so well to my actual life and my actual experiences more than anything else that it applied almost instantly to my day where other spiritualities had been more like esoteric, more heady, more things that I had to go into, you know, a dark room and pray about and
00:22:13
Speaker
Of course, there's prayer within Ignatian spirituality, but it's alive in your day as well, and that really spoke to me.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think that I feel the same way. It just really resonated because it allows you to stop, right? Doesn't it? It allows you to pause before you respond, right? I feel especially being like educators. I don't know how you feel when you have those challenging moments in the day and you're like, okay, not the best situation, but
00:22:48
Speaker
What are you teaching me? Where before I wouldn't think that way. I would just get right into the being angry or upset or why is this happening to me. It allows you to think differently.
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah, it both invites you to say, what, God, are you trying to teach me in this moment? But also, what in this moment is mine to observe about my own behaviors, my own actions, the things that I have said and done? And then what is it that I can let go of? Because that's kind of outside of my control. That's something that is kind of in somebody else's control.
00:23:24
Speaker
as well as what might that other person I'm interacting with, what might be going on in their lives while we're having this interaction. It really gives you how to observe all sides of an interaction. It really does because I think back of how I was and we're still evolving and changing and growing, but I think in certain situations, I would have acted differently.
00:23:49
Speaker
Right? If I was still the same woman that I was, you know, say five years, 10 years, even a year ago. And so I'll tell you there was like two days ago, I was talking to our oldest and our youngest was there as well. And I'm asking him all these questions. He came home for the weekend.
00:24:11
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, did you take care of this? Did you do this? And what about this? And I'm just bombarding him with questions. And he's like, yes, mom, I told you. Yeah, I'll take care of it. Don't worry. And I could see that he was feeling a little bit overwhelmed. So he leaves. He goes upstairs.
00:24:24
Speaker
Then our youngest looks at me and says, Mom, he told you, he's taking care of it. He's under a lot of pressure. You don't need to be asking him so many questions. And the way he said it, he was so gentle, but he was firm. He was very respectful. It just stopped me on my tracks.
00:24:44
Speaker
And I was like, what a humbling moment as a parent. And I looked at him and I said, you're right. You're right. You're right. I'm sorry. But back then, I don't think I would have reacted that way.
00:24:59
Speaker
You know, I was like, okay, you're right. Thank you, God, for allowing me to see that I am pushing him too much. He doesn't need more pressure. So for those moments, I'm very
Cultural Influences on Faith
00:25:12
Speaker
grateful. Yeah. And to be able to see God present in your youngest son and the words coming out of his mouth, as opposed to just always thinking it's just that person being able to see some divine movement in
00:25:27
Speaker
conversations for sure is a blessing. I'm still working on finding the divine movement and my children from day to day, but they're really young. They'll get there. They come, trust me, they come.
00:25:42
Speaker
Right? They do. Is there a particular moment or story in your life where you can think of that this understanding of being loved as you are became real for you? Maybe it's something simple, maybe it's something more complex. Everybody kind of has a different touch point. I think there are two that I could think of. And one of them takes me back, gosh, I must have been
00:26:11
Speaker
I think it was more about being loved, right? But not truly understanding, oh, being loved as I am, but just being loved. And it was probably, I must have been eight or nine years old. And I had gone during the summer to go visit my grandmother in Mexico. And very devout Catholic.
00:26:35
Speaker
She would take me to Mass with her. She would like to sometimes just go into church and pray. And I remember this one day specifically, there was no Mass. She just told me, let's go to church. And we had just gone to the market. I said, okay, so we go in. The church was practically empty. It was beautiful.
00:27:01
Speaker
So I walk in, and back then, she had bought me one of those mantillas to cover, right? So she had it, I had it, and so we're walking in, and she's sitting there at the pew, and she's praying and praying, and I'm just sitting there watching, I'm looking around, looking at all the saints and the statues and everything. And I felt like I saw her kneeling and praying.
00:27:26
Speaker
I'm like, well, I guess I gotta do that too, right? So I'm like sitting there and then I'm kneeling with her and I'm watching her pray. And so I started just thinking, okay, well, I'm going to pray too. And I felt so loved and taken care of in that moment, right? And to this day, that's always a memory that I go to. And the second
00:27:55
Speaker
When I think it was my grandmother, from my mom's side, she struggled so much through different things in her life. And she never lost her faith. And I learned so much from her that I felt like that always carried me. Like no matter how difficult things are, God loves me.
00:28:21
Speaker
and I am being protected. It'll get fixed some way, somehow. I feel like those two, my, and it's interesting, like I just, in you asking that question, I feel like the women in my life that have given me that have been my grandmothers.
00:28:40
Speaker
I hadn't even realized it until you asked and I started thinking about it. Yeah. I like your first, like both your stories, but I like your first story of, because it reminds me of the warm, comforting nature of a faith that is both cultural.
00:28:58
Speaker
and generational, and that just deep abiding faith of your grandmother that was both informed by her own family, but also her culture, has that played a role in how you view your own faith? I mean, I know you're a Spanish teacher, so perhaps you bring it into that conversation with students. I do, I do. I feel, for me, I was raised to have a great devotion toward Lady of Guadalupe.
00:29:29
Speaker
the mother of immigrants. And both from my dad and my grandmother, I always feel like when I pray as a mother for our boys, I tend to always go to her. So culturally, she's very important because you could, Mexicans, Mexican Americans, as part of our culture, she is just
00:29:57
Speaker
there, like she's always at the center. And I feel like I've learned so much from her example of saying yes, right? Yeah, culturally, it's very, very...
00:30:13
Speaker
bonded, definitely, as part of being Catholic. Yeah, in an earlier episode with Kathy Powell, who we both know as well, we talked about Mary and specifically the fact that Mary is kind of unique among the saints because she appears to people in, you know,
00:30:32
Speaker
in the skin color, in the culture, in the language of whomever she's speaking to. And so there's so many different apparitions of Mary that are, you know, Mary looking different because it's whoever she's encountering at that moment, Mary speaking a different language because it's whatever language she's encountering at that moment. So
00:30:51
Speaker
It's kind of a reminder that Jesus' mother is one of the most kind of approachable and like right there, getting into the root of your experience every time you encounter her. It really isn't. It's something like when I'm praying, since I have prayed the Hail Mary,
00:31:12
Speaker
I could only pray it in Spanish. I could pray it in English, but with her, I only prayed in Spanish. And I've taught my students, right, to pray in Spanish. But it's, yeah, it's just, it almost feels unnatural for me to pray in English, which is silly.
00:31:29
Speaker
But that's how I connect with her is I always feel like I pray in Spanish. Yeah, I mean, there's this deeper connection when it's in that language. There's a group of moms that for many years would pray in our chapel and they would pray the rosary in Spanish and they would always encounter me in the hallway on the way to the chapel and be like, are you going to join us today? I'd be like, no, no, I'm good.
00:31:54
Speaker
Eventually, they put a pamphlet on my desk that was the rosary in Spanish because I told them that I'm from San Antonio, Texas. We had Spanish every year of our lives. I even took it in college, but there's always been this nervousness for me to really embrace speaking the language. One day, I did go with them. It was just so beautiful.
00:32:17
Speaker
until they told me I had the first decade. And I was like, OK, well, you're just diving me right into the deep end. But it's just beautiful to see their unique devotion to the rosary, specifically in Spanish, as well as it was during Advent. So, you know, the devotion to the nativity scene and everything. It was it's just incredible whenever we can not only encounter our faith in our own culture and experience, but also when we can encounter it in other people's culture and experience as well.
Belovedness and Self-Worth
00:32:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely. What do you do for yourself, for your children, maybe for your students, to help internalize this idea of our belovedness? How do I do it?
00:33:03
Speaker
Explain to me the concept of belovedness, like what does that necessarily mean? Yeah, so I mean, that's a good question. I, it's in some cases when I think of this concept of belovedness or being loved as you are, it's like a feeling rather than how do I, and do I really know what this means? And maybe it's I interview all these guests all the time, so I'm still learning what this means. But Henry now and you know, he wrote an entire book called Life of the Beloved, but he also gave
00:33:31
Speaker
lectures when he was still alive about this idea that we are beloved sons and daughters of God. And he would say that often we get distracted from our belovedness because we're thinking about
00:33:45
Speaker
I am what I have. I am what others think about me. I am what I earn. I am, you know, my success and accolades, all of those things. When all of that is stripped away, he says, you know, what will you have left? Well, you're still going to be loved by God because that is foundational. It is
00:34:08
Speaker
always true. There's two quotes that I really like whenever I'm thinking of our belovedness. One is from a Jesuit named Anthony Demello, who says, Behold the one beholding you and smiling. And it wasn't like that was it. There was I mean, there was other words around it in the, you know, larger text. But I always was struck by that quote, because
00:34:32
Speaker
there wasn't any like, behold the one beholding you and smiling because you got an A or because you are, you know, saying yes to whatever God says or a doctor. It's the one beholding you and smiling even when your house is a mess, even when you've messed up a relationship, even when you're struggling with addiction, all of those things, God's not the belovedness doesn't doesn't go away.
00:34:56
Speaker
But I've always considered it to be, Ignatian Spirituality taught me this, but when I started writing and started a website on the
00:35:05
Speaker
front, I was like, okay, what am I writing about? And I started writing about this concept of being loved as I am no matter what. Because I don't think I always knew that. I wish I had known that you said earlier in our conversation, I wish I had known some things earlier, what would I have done differently? I think if I had known, I was loved no matter what, when I was a child, I would have lived more into
00:35:30
Speaker
who God was wanting me to be at that time. And that doesn't mean that people weren't telling me I was loved, no matter what, but being able to hear it, being able to think about it, and realizing that, yeah, there's nothing, there's no requirements of that love that God has for us. And I don't think that's necessarily the faith that I was taught in Catholic elementary school, because I think there was this kind of
00:35:57
Speaker
fear, you know, like make sure you do what you're supposed to do. And if you don't or else or God, you know, we'll be angry. God will be sad. God will be disappointed in you. And the only way to fix that is to then start all over again or make reparations for it. And I think God is sad when we do things that break our relationship. I always equate it that with then not loving me at that moment.
00:36:26
Speaker
or not smiling at me in that moment. But like, yeah, so I don't know if that is a good explanation of belovedness, but that's what I've always leaned into. And I think I continue to need other people's thoughts and perspectives to further like define what that is.
00:36:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's, and thank you for the clarification. It's so much easier, I think, as mothers, right, to love our children just as they are, right? Like, you know, having two teenagers, messy or not messy or whatever, we love them no matter what, right? And being able to turn that around and say, okay,
00:37:10
Speaker
With all my brokenness and my fears and insecurities, you love me. And what I have learned to do in these past few years is ground myself in prayer so I don't forget that.
00:37:26
Speaker
because I will have those moments of weakness and doubt, right? But if I, at my core, am committed to my prayer life, and I know that's where I'm going to get my strength, right?
00:37:43
Speaker
I used to run a lot in the past. Now I'm doing more hiking. I'm hoping that my feet will cooperate, something more hiking now. But in those moments, like what do I do for myself is when I go on hikes, when I go on walks, I have that moment with God where I feel like, oh, you're really
00:38:04
Speaker
me and we're having this conversation and thank you so much for the beautiful trees and thank you so much for the beautiful blue sky and I feel like that's where I've always found
00:38:14
Speaker
My centering remember years ago because oh my god, you like you run so much little did they know well, that's my prayer time Right. So yeah, I feel like it's it's finding those those moments of stillness, right? Um That will feed us um, there's so much growth When we decide to stop
00:38:42
Speaker
And it's so difficult to do in our world right now because everything's right go go go, but it's so important Even if it's just five minutes, even if it's just one minute right where we're able to do that for ourselves is yeah, I Resonate with what you said. I ran for about
00:39:01
Speaker
10 or 15 years, but my brain is never quiet. I'm constantly go, go, go on the outside as well as the inside. And so doing some kind of physical fitness, I do it differently now, but moving my body is a way for me to then quiet my brain and be able to kind of be more open to what
00:39:21
Speaker
God is trying to say to me in that moment. But one of the things that also I struggle with with belovedness is comparison to other people and their achievements. And you teach middle school, so that's like the prime time for comparing yourselves to everybody else. I remember that very well.
00:39:44
Speaker
The stories, the stories, yes. My office door is always open and I feel so grateful that the kids trust me to come in and so they call me Maestra, Maestra Cévez.
00:39:59
Speaker
And the door opens and goes, Maya, start going to talk to you. And then either it'll be, you know, tears or it'll be laughter or it'll be, I need your help. And I feel so blessed, right, that they trust me to be able to do that. But you're so right. It's such an age where at that age, they're comparing themselves so much.
00:40:21
Speaker
We tend to do that, right, as well. But I feel like through Ignatian, right, we're learning not to, right? And his way of teaching and prayer and looking inward and not outward, right? Yeah, it's definitely counter to just how the world works because we are
00:40:49
Speaker
ranking ourselves constantly. And we are both fighting for the same jobs, the same awards, the same accolades, all of those things, the same position higher on whatever ladder. And so it's harder to have this countercultural thought of, I'm only
00:41:10
Speaker
really competing with myself into who God is calling me to be and how I can best achieve that as opposed to, you know, can I be as good at this as somebody else? I think that's one of the things Ignatian spirituality really has taught me is that we're uniquely formed for a unique purpose. But I can't imagine it's easy to know that
00:41:33
Speaker
in fifth through eighth grade, no matter how you've been formed, you know, because that's when you're like, he's growing taller than me, or they have acne. They don't have acne, but I have acne, you know? Yeah, but I do. But those are the things that we start with, and then we carry those on for so long. And I feel for, you know, my son's a fifth grader, and I can see that starting, well, I think it happened, started with him earlier, but that comparison or that not wanting to look stupid or not wanting to,
00:42:02
Speaker
say something wrong. It's hard to combat against that because I do think a lot of what we take in is reinforcing that idea.
00:42:15
Speaker
And it's what you said it's it's accepting right that we are uniquely made and and we have a unique call right that nobody else can offer but you or I or our kids or spouses, right and I've learned so much from our oldest son because he has always been true to who he is and
00:42:44
Speaker
and never follow what others were doing, but followed what he wanted to do. And in middle school, trying to fit in, right? Okay, well, I'm really not into sports, but okay, I'll get into sports, right?
00:42:59
Speaker
And they're just like, no, that's not who I am, right? And just to see him stand on his own two feet and say, no, this is what I'm interested. This is what I want to do. It might not be what everybody else is doing, but that's what I'm going to do. And I feel like as parents, we learn so much from our kids, right? Because even our youngest is the same way. It's like, I don't want to do that. I'm not interested in going out and doing that. And I'm like, oh.
00:43:29
Speaker
Oh, if I was your age, I would have wanted to do that. But I guess it's not about me. It's about you. So I'm going to let you be. Yeah, it's not easy for sure. I mean, I've had those moments of insecurity. So like when I started being introduced to Becky's ministry,
00:43:49
Speaker
Well, you speak and you know, the other women about being spiritual directors or having this degree in theology or that or this, like, well, I'm not a spiritual director. It doesn't mean I might not be one one day, but I'm not. And I have a degree, but it's not in theology. And I don't have all this experience about, you know, Ignatian spirituality. So then the insecurities start heading in, like, I don't think I've been
00:44:16
Speaker
I go, absolutely, you belong here, right? And it's like, no, that's not from God. You know, stay the course. You're here for a reason. And I'm so glad that I didn't listen to those voices.
00:44:30
Speaker
because I look back and I'm like, we wouldn't have the inner chapel community, or maybe it would have still happened, but maybe it would have looked different, or I don't know, right? Yeah, no, I've learned so much about truly accepting what it means to accept your gifts and seeking what your calling is. I feel like it's been so
00:44:53
Speaker
important in my life. Yeah, and a lot of the, whether they were Jesuits or just lay people who also work in Ignatian spirituality, a lot of individuals I've met who have been formed in Ignatian spirituality have taught me by their example that there's a place for everyone and there's an opportunity for everyone to serve if they're being, you know, if they're really looking at who they are, what their unique gifts and talents are,
00:45:18
Speaker
what their unique call from God is, then there is enough space for everybody, right? And for everybody to do wonderful and incredible things. And in fact, God is hoping for that. But sometimes we get tripped up by wanting to all do the same incredible thing. And this space becomes very narrow, right?
Impact of Social Media
00:45:40
Speaker
But yeah, I think one of the
00:45:43
Speaker
things also that Ignatian spirituality has taught me is that you can serve God as an accountant. You can serve God as a CEO. You can serve God as an airline pilot. It's just a matter of what you're doing with those gifts and talents and how you're serving God and how you're caring for other people within that. Like everything you do can be a ministry. It doesn't have to be separate from
00:46:09
Speaker
your faith and your life don't have to be separate. And what a gift, right? That we have and that we've learned that. And I mean, it's still a journey and we're still walking the journey, but I feel it's so beautiful to think that every single person we encounter, they are uniquely made and they have something wonderful to give.
00:46:36
Speaker
think is particularly challenging and maybe for your middle schoolers, but maybe for yourself or others you encounter. What do you think makes it particularly challenging right now in 2023 for us to recognize being loved as we are?
00:46:52
Speaker
There's such good things that social media provides, but it's also been something that I've seen that has been quite damaging, especially with middle schoolers and even adults. We're always comparing ourselves to others and what they have, what they look like or
00:47:13
Speaker
There has to be a balance because things like all social media is bad. No social media is not bad But it's what we choose to to look at right what we choose to to follow and I feel like that definitely has been a challenge for kids, especially teenage girls, I feel like they're constantly
00:47:36
Speaker
comparing themselves physically, you know, am I tall enough? Am I thin enough? Oh, you know, I can't wear these shorts or I shouldn't, you know, it's constantly and it's like, you're beautiful. You have a beautiful smile. You have beautiful eyes. And, you know, it's hard. It's hard at that age to really accept that compliment. Oh, I have beautiful eyes. Well, you know, I want to be skinnier. I want to be taller, right?
00:48:02
Speaker
But I think a lot of it definitely has to do with what they're constantly looking at in that screen, right? Yeah, I think, you know, I went to an all girls high school, I think I graduated.
00:48:14
Speaker
like 114 girls. So I had 113 girls to compare myself to. And I know that I did that in classes, like, oh, they said something more intelligent than I did. Or, you know, they seem to wear I didn't know how to wear makeup in high school, you wear makeup really well. I don't even know how you learn that. But to have millions of
00:48:36
Speaker
girls to compare myself to. I don't know, that might have been good because I could find people like me in different ways and feel like I wasn't or I could see the variety of body types and looks and intellectual abilities was much wider than even the girls I went to school with. But I don't know. Yeah, if I could also see that it would
00:49:02
Speaker
increase that comparison, it wouldn't just happen while I was at school, then I would have it at home to do as well. Is there any way that you seek to teach your middle schoolers about
00:49:13
Speaker
social media or about encountering like that larger community? Is there, I mean, I imagine in a class that's a Spanish class, you think a little globally. I think, yeah, I think the way I do it, because I am a Spanish teacher, I always love to expose my students to
00:49:33
Speaker
the culture of Spanish-speaking countries, right? And allowing them to see real, say, television commercials or little snippets of a movie, right? We're like, look, these kids are just like you, right? The culture is different. But I feel like
00:49:53
Speaker
them allowing them to see how similar they are to others and allowing them to learn about other cultures opens up their mindset and they become more accepting of others. I feel like it's been
00:50:14
Speaker
important for me to do that. And I'm hoping that as they leave middle school, that they will take that with them, knowing like, oh, okay, we are different, but not so much, right? We might speak a different language. We might look physically a little bit different.
00:50:32
Speaker
But at the end, we are pretty similar. Teenagers in Spain or in Argentina pretty much have the same interests as the interests of our teenagers in our country. Teaching Spanish has allowed me to introduce to our students
00:50:55
Speaker
acceptance of others. Through them learning how to speak the language, from them learning about the culture, from them even learning how to pray in Spanish, right? A few years ago, I took a group of, and I've done this a few times, to Costa Rica. And one of the towns we were at, there was a church closed by the hotel where we were staying. And I said, we're going to go to Mass. And they're like,
00:51:25
Speaker
But we're not going to understand everything. It's okay. It's okay if you don't understand everything, but you know what?
00:51:32
Speaker
We're gonna go because regardless if it's if it's English or Spanish or French or Italian to one God, it's okay. We will be there. And so we went and as soon as the our father and Hail Mary came up praying, it's so loud. And they were so happy. So it's those moments, right? That I feel like, see, you're making a connection.
00:52:00
Speaker
Yeah, and of course, remembering that the mass is the same mass. I mean, it is and it isn't because obviously there are different things that cultures introduce into mass, but you will find the same routine and the same rights being done, at least in the Western world. And so you get to go and sit in whatever language and kind of have a familiarity of what's going on.
00:52:22
Speaker
Also, you said we can see our similarities. We probably have some similar interests. I'm sure your students can also see that they probably have some similar insecurities as well. Whether you're a middle schooler in Spain or Argentina or Mexico or here, you have all those same things coming up.
00:52:43
Speaker
for you, which does highlight one of the importance of our belovedness is that we're not only supposed to recognize that we are loved as we are, but that every human being is loved as they are as well. Even those that we aren't familiar with, even those that maybe we don't agree with, whatever it is,
00:53:03
Speaker
God did create them for some unique purpose.
Conclusion and Future Guests
00:53:06
Speaker
Right. Well, Liz, this has been such a wonderful conversation. I am so glad that we were able to have it. I'm sure it will not be our last conversation, but thank you so much for coming on the podcast and thank you for all the work that you do with the Interchapel community and as a part of Ignatian Ministries, where I think you said you're leading a book club in the new Ignatian Ministries.
00:53:29
Speaker
Yes, yes. So coming up, we are going to be launching our first spiritual book club as part of the Ignatian Spirituality Ministries. And our book is actually, we're going to start with a friendship like no other.
00:53:45
Speaker
I was very familiar with and yeah, I'm very excited to start launching that pretty soon in the next few, I think it's in two days actually, as a matter of fact. So yeah, I'm excited that we're getting people again, once again, from all across the country and coming together and engaging in these meaningful conversations.
00:54:07
Speaker
And you also write for Into the Deep, so I will link to Ignatian Ministries in the show notes so that people can not only access what you do, but it's some of my other wonderful guests who are a part of Ignatian Ministries as well. But thank you again so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you for the invitation, and it was wonderful being with you. Thank you.
00:54:39
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Liz. I especially loved her very real and vulnerable question of what does belovedness really mean. I am finding that answer is a lifelong exploration for me. Do you think you or someone you know has a story about being loved as you are that would fit with this podcast? Please reach out to me and let me know by emailing me at lovedasyouarepod at gmail.com. I have another exciting guest coming your way soon.
00:55:10
Speaker
But for now, remember to be who you are because that's exactly who God wants you to be.