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Miyoko Schinner | Vegan Chef & Entrepreneur
134 Plays1 year ago
Plant-based eating is a great way to reduce our carbon footprint but for those us who are only plant curious or reluctant vegans or awkward flexitarians this change-up requires some adult supervision.
So we chatted with Miyoko Schinner a chef, best-selling author, vegan cheese pioneer and plant-based dairy expert to explore ways we can demystify whole food meal prep and lean in to animal-free living without all the emotional baggage.
In this episode you’ll learn about the science behind dairy-free cheese, the power of community-based food systems, meal making as an act of connection, animal activism and education, and how protein deficiencies in vegan diets is total hogwash.
The discussion is raw and honest and you’re going to love it.
If you're curious about Miyoko you can follow her on Instagram and YouTube; and if you're curious about the shoutouts she gave you can follow the bread crumbs here: Rancho Gordo, Three Trees, and World Centric.
Here's a summary of this episode:
Miyoko's Vision for the Future of Food: Miyoko advocates for a decentralized, community-based food system, moving away from the current supermarket model which benefits large corporations at the expense of consumers and producers. She suggests a return to local markets and small-scale producers to foster a closer connection between people and their food.
Cooking and Food Preparation: She encourages cooking from scratch using whole ingredients, demystifying the process of making common store-bought items like ketchup, and promoting the joy and simplicity of homemade meals.
Protein Myths and Vegan Nutrition: Miyoko addresses the common misconception about protein deficiency in vegan diets, emphasizing that a well-planned plant-based diet provides ample protein without the need for animal products.
Innovation in Vegan Cheese Making: As a pioneer in vegan cheese, Miyoko discusses her creative process and the evolution of making plant-based cheeses that rival their dairy counterparts in taste and texture.
The Importance of Cooking at Home: Miyoko stresses the importance of the kitchen as the heart of the home, advocating for cooking as a communal and enjoyable activity rather than a solitary chore.
Children's Education and Activism: Through her animal sanctuary, Rancho Compassion, Miyoko aims to educate children about animal welfare and the importance of a plant-based diet in a gentle, non-preachy manner.
B Corp Certification and Ethical Consumption: She discusses the value of B Corp certification as a marker of companies committed to social and environmental responsibility, though she notes the potential for greenwashing.
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Transcript
Introduction to Plant-Based Eating
00:00:00
Speaker
This is aisle 42.
00:00:07
Speaker
Plant-based eating is a great way to reduce our carbon footprint, but for those of us who are only plant curious or reluctant vegans or awkward flexitarians, this change-up requires some adult supervision.
Guest Introduction: Miyoko Shinner
00:00:20
Speaker
So I chatted with Miyoko Shinner, a chef, best-selling author, vegan cheese pioneer, and a plant-based dairy expert to explore ways that we can demystify whole food meal prep and lean into animal-free living without all the emotional baggage.
Topics Overview: Veganism and Food Systems
00:00:34
Speaker
In this episode, you'll learn about the science behind dairy-free cheese, the power of community-based food systems, meal-making as an act of connection, animal activism and education, and how protein deficiencies in vegan diets is total hogwash. There's actually a lot packed into this one. The discussion is raw and honest, and you're going to love
Miyoko's Influence and Consumer Awareness
00:00:55
Speaker
it. Here's the vegan cheese queen herself, Miyoko Shinner.
00:01:03
Speaker
Miyoko, in the food industry and for those plugged into a vegan lifestyle, your legend precedes you, but I'm suspicious that there's still a lot of conscious consumers out there that haven't yet caught wind of everything that you've done and everything that you're doing to fix the broken food system.
Future of Community-Based Grocery Systems
00:01:20
Speaker
So thank you so much for joining me. Where are you calling in from today? I am from the little town of Nicasio, which is in West Marin in California, about 45 minutes north of San Francisco.
00:01:33
Speaker
That's awesome. Now I have a confession for you. Okay.
00:01:37
Speaker
I like confessions. They're very exciting. So I reached out to you with this podcast invite, you know, maybe a couple of months ago, and I've been doing my homework ever since, building a list of questions as, you know, a responsible person would do. Last week I looked at my list and it was over three pages long, which is not fair. And we don't have that kind of time. Doesn't that terrifying? So I'm going to put some constraints on this conversation and we're going to stay focused on two areas, the grocery store,
00:02:07
Speaker
and future generations.
Local Food Systems vs. Supermarkets
00:02:09
Speaker
Oh, okay. And familiar to our listeners is my first question. Miyoko, if you were to imagine the perfect grocery store of the future, what would it look like? Well, it wouldn't be today's supermarkets. In fact, I believe I am becoming radical in my idea of how do we sell food to consumers? How do we produce food that's not only benefiting consumers, but the actual producers themselves and the idea of
00:02:36
Speaker
having one convenient location where people can go and just get all their shopping done in one place. That sounds wonderful, and I know that it's very appealing to all of us that are trying to save time and all of that, but it's actually creating havoc for producers, for consumers. It's allowing the 10 largest food corporations to control what we buy.
00:03:02
Speaker
And so for me, the future food system, the future grocery store would be sort of like the grocery stores of your localized, maybe there's every community has a bakery where they sell bread and then there's a store that sells, I don't know, it could be
00:03:21
Speaker
animal dairy and plant dairy products or could be a vegetable store.
Decentralized Food Systems Advocacy
00:03:25
Speaker
When I lived in Tokyo back in the 1980s, it's interesting that even in the 1980s in an industrial modernized city like Tokyo, people didn't have large refrigerators in their homes. They had small refrigerators.
00:03:38
Speaker
And you went shopping every day or two. And shopping meant you literally went down your block and you stopped at the vegetable store, you stopped at the tofu store, you stopped at the, I don't know, the bakery, and you picked up what you needed for the next couple of days. It was a very, very simple life. And I really do believe that we have to go back to a system like that because we're not understanding
00:04:01
Speaker
Because our love of convenience, we are not understanding the impact that the middleman, the supermarket has. The supermarket, the distributors, all of this. And it's creating havoc in the entire food system that I don't think people are aware of, but as they become aware of it, I think they're going to understand why we have to overthrow that system.
00:04:25
Speaker
So I'm starting out with a very radical concept. Sorry. Yeah. When you say the word overthrow, I lean in because, uh, yeah. Excellent. It's a decentralization of the food system. That's a good way to put it. It sounds beautiful. It sounds, it has its own level of complication, but I think when, when all of us have had those opportunities where we're shopping is more of a destination, it's more of
The Experience of Shopping and Community
00:04:50
Speaker
a journey. It can be really exciting. It can really be inspiring. Can't it?
00:04:55
Speaker
Yes. Yes. It's an experience. I mean, if, you know, it's like going to the farmer's market. I mean, 20 years ago, we didn't even have farmer's markets. I don't believe. And then they made a comeback. And my local farmer's market is packed every single Thursday and Sunday. And we need more of that. We need them every day. We need them all over the place. We need markets. I remember going to Turkey and there's this huge pavilion.
00:05:22
Speaker
with all these local producers inside selling things every single day. And it was packed full of locals, full of tourists, because it's such an experience to shop like that, to be able to buy directly from the person who's making something. There's a story to be told. There's a connection to be made. You get a sense of community. You get a sense of humanity.
Guiding Families Towards Plant-Based Diets
00:05:43
Speaker
And that has been taken out of the food system.
00:05:46
Speaker
Well said, Yoko. You know how the police have ride-alongs where civilians can join them in the car and witness a day in the life? I got to wondering, if you were to walk alongside a mom or a dad who's shopping, you know, they're doing their weekly shopping trip, and they've never seriously considered organic ingredients or plant-based eating much less veganism,
00:06:07
Speaker
What would you say to them? What would you grab off the shelf and talk to them about and inspire them about to get them to explore different kinds of meal prep for their family? That's a really, really great question. And when you are so involved in the food system like I am, especially one aspect of it, you can get on your high horse and really turn people off. And so that's something that I always have to watch out for is how do I communicate with people? So if I were to go shopping with a mom or dad, I would hope that they would be
00:06:38
Speaker
open-minded people, not that I'm forcing myself on them. So if they've invited me to come along, I assume they're open-minded. And I would really, like many articles say, try to steer them to the perimeter of the store to where you can get the fresh produce. I would really encourage them to go back to basics, to buying things that are not in packages.
00:07:00
Speaker
the bulk section to lean into the magic that can happen in their own kitchen by buying whole grains and beans and legumes and vegetables and really cooking from scratch. I would pick up a package, let's say something like ketchup, and I would show them the ingredients. And I would say, you know, you can make this at home in five minutes. And I would demystify so many of the foods that we have come to take for granted
00:07:28
Speaker
must only be bought, that they cannot be made from scratch at home. And we're scared. It's like we go home and, oh my God, I couldn't make that. I mean, I remember growing up at a time when everyone bought bottled salad dressing. I don't know what people do today. I know more and more people are now just making simple vinaigrette's.
00:07:47
Speaker
and salad dressings at home. But back in the 1960s and 70s, people were all buying salad dressing. We had bought this notion that you couldn't make your own salad dressing, that it had to come in a bottle from the store. And somehow we got over that because we learned that they're made out of very simple ingredients that you can actually master at home in about five minutes. And so we can do that with so many other packaged ingredients, packaged products.
00:08:15
Speaker
realize that all of these actually initiated somehow in the home or in someone's you know, some grandma's kitchen and We can go back to doing that without spending hours and hours in the kitchen every single day so many different things like whether it's mustard or ketchup or mayonnaise or Some packaged bar a lot of this, you know can come together within minutes in your own kitchen and so really demystifying packaged foods so that we can reclaim them and
00:08:43
Speaker
for ourselves, add a whole natural ingredients, and know what we actually put into it.
Debunking Protein Myths in Vegan Diets
00:08:49
Speaker
I think would be the magic that I would want to impart. That'd be fun. Man, I'd love to do a walk along with you in the grocery store. When it comes to veganism,
00:09:00
Speaker
Is protein that primary barrier to someone exploring it? Is that the one thing that sort of gets the most noise or is there other areas that maybe I'm being too simplistic with it? But I feel like protein always sort of comes up and it always comes up with some spit and nails.
00:09:17
Speaker
Okay, yeah, protein always comes up. We have embraced that macronutrient as being the most important macronutrient that humans need for health. And it's, yeah, it is an important macronutrient, but we obsess about it and it's absurd. I've been vegan for, I don't know.
00:09:35
Speaker
since the mid-1980s, so how long is that, 40 years? I never think about protein. Never. And the fact is, protein is a macronutrient in just about every single natural food. As long as it's not a highly processed food like sugar, there's protein.
00:09:51
Speaker
And the fact is most, the average American consumes twice as much protein as they actually need. And not only that is actually good for health, it's too much protein that can lead to other complications. We don't have a condition called protein deficiency as, has anyone ever heard of that? And does anyone ever go to the doctor for protein deficiency? It doesn't exist. So this is a complete myth that I've heard stories that originated in
00:10:18
Speaker
Animal agriculture in the meat industry, etc. I don't know what the real story is. But the fact is it is a myth.
History and Excitement of Plant-Based Diets
00:10:24
Speaker
It's not true You as long as you're getting enough calories and eating real food not potato chips and candy bars You're going to get enough protein now if you're an athlete, you may have to think a little harder about it But you can still do that easily by just honing in on Whole food whole plant foods, you know making sure you're eating your legumes and and that sort of thing
00:10:48
Speaker
In our family lifestyle, I have a nine-year-old daughter and so things like pasta is a meal that she loves and we love as a family. We buy sourdough pasta and it has a lot of protein in it. Naturally, there's just plenty of protein. There's no need to throw meat on that pasta because it doesn't need it.
00:11:12
Speaker
especially in this case with the sourdough pasta, I'm energized by it. We love eating it and it's easy on our stomach because of the fermentations aside of the equation. Great sound of lectins.
00:11:24
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah. So I feel like I don't get into the protein battles myself very often, but when I hear about them happening in the peripheral, I'm like, I get my, the hairs on the back of my neck go up. I'm like, oh, someone's gonna, someone's gonna get angry. But it's, uh, it's interesting. I like how you said the, you know, we don't go for protein deficiency appointments at our doctor. No, no.
00:11:49
Speaker
So you've pioneered vegan cheese making, transforming the category from rubbery and laughable to creamy and delicious. What's the next animal based food category that's on your vegan radar these days?
00:12:05
Speaker
Well, I think that's one of the problems, to be honest, is that we're always trying to replicate animal foods. And this is a recent phenomenon. And this is the other thing is that we humans are at a certain point in history, and we think this is the way it's been for all of history.
00:12:20
Speaker
And the fact is we didn't eat this much meat or dairy until the last century. For most of humankind, we evolved eating mostly plant foods. Meat was a special occasion thing, something that you ate for a celebration. I mean, remember we didn't have refrigeration. So unless you were making jerky, what were you going to do when you killed a large animal? I mean, it went to feed the entire village.
00:12:44
Speaker
And then you might not eat that again for a while. And it was easier to grow crops. And so this is another myth that we have to dispel. We also have to remember even in more recent periods in the last century, there are plenty of countries, whether Asian countries, African countries, where they were still eating predominantly a plant-based diet.
00:13:05
Speaker
And meat was considered the pinnacle of food that when you reach a certain economic status, you could have on a more regular basis. And so as we become wealthier countries, we have increased our consumption of animal products. So the question I have to ask is, is that the right direction?
Innovative Vegan Cheese Making
00:13:24
Speaker
Maybe we should have a new paradigm where we make plants sexy and
00:13:29
Speaker
and hot you know it's kind of beginning to happen with like who doesn't love Brussels sprouts when they go out to a restaurant you know it's not your grandma's boiled Brussels sprouts it's it's cooked with all kinds of things i had them last night at a restaurant they were i guess sauteed with golden raisins and balsamic vinegar and it was just like they were so delicious and juicy
00:13:49
Speaker
I mean, who doesn't love that anymore? So we can do that with more foods and stop trying to replicate. On the other hand, I also feel like there isn't, there's exciting work to be done in terms of taking whole plant foods and making things that are meaty or creamy, not isolating proteins and
00:14:08
Speaker
adding a bunch of gums and fillers and things that can only be done in a lab. But in your own kitchen, you can make a quote unquote, something like a ground beef. I mean, there was something chewy out of things like walnuts and mushrooms, very simple whole ingredients.
00:14:24
Speaker
that any consumer can make that satisfies. Right now I am writing a new cookbook and it's called The Vegan Creamery and it's about all things plant dairy. But I've discovered new ways to make cheese and out of traditional dairy making, I mean like beyond what I was doing before. So out of ingredients that are very different from what I use it for.
The Communal Nature of Cooking
00:14:46
Speaker
So I start out with seeds and legumes. I make a milk
00:14:49
Speaker
And then I found ways to coagulate it and then ferment it and then drain it and then compress it into a cheese just like traditional cheese making. So this is sort of
00:14:58
Speaker
It's fun to discover that plants can do things that we thought only animal products to do. So there's an excitement. There's a part of me that's very creative and I'm always thinking about what can I do with this? And so that's exciting and it's really fun. That being said, I'm very happy making lentil soup.
00:15:20
Speaker
And if you make it right, I mean, people that feel like they can only have a burger will go, wow, that's delicious too. So there's a world of plants out there waiting to be discovered, whether it's Brussels sprouts or cauliflower steak or a really good bean soup. And we don't need to constantly mimic animal products. That's well said. I appreciate the way you say that. Now it's a little unfair because you're a chef, but
00:15:48
Speaker
Most of our homes have kitchens that are sort of the center of the domestic life. They are open. We often are eating in our kitchen at our counters. The kitchen is not tucked away from the dining room where when we were younger that was more common.
00:16:06
Speaker
I feel like this type of cooking this exploration this playfulness in the kitchen It's sort of primed by a lot. Maybe maybe it's cookbooks I mean cook but what an amazing category, you know in the in the publishing world cookbooks are wildly popular You've done three already. So you're I've done six You six. Yeah. I mean my first cookbook was written in 1990. So it was a long time ago before all of this
00:16:33
Speaker
So I only know three of them. So you win. That's that's amazing. When it comes to influencers and ingredient trends and sort of some of the stuff that happens on social media, which definitely can prime the pump for people. Do you see that as helping the cause? Do you see it as creating overwhelm? What's sort of your take on this spin around ingredients and social media sharing around food?
00:17:01
Speaker
Yeah, well, first of all, I want to point out, I love what you just said about the kitchen is central to most families today in most homes today. I think we should really emphasize that. So let's celebrate the fact that the kitchen is the heart of the family home and let's spend more time in there and let's make cooking together.
Impact of Social Media on Cooking Trends
00:17:24
Speaker
with family and friends and activity that we can embrace and enjoy as we discover new recipes. I think it's wonderful that there are so many influencers and people cooking today. I mean, this material, we didn't have this access. We had cookbooks and then Julia Child came up with, I believe, the very first
00:17:43
Speaker
cooking show ever on television. And now we have celebrity chefs and it's a real thing. We are obsessed with cooking more. At the same time, some people are cooking less and buying all pre-packaged foods. So this is an opportunity. I think there's an undercurrent that is signaling us to get back into our kitchens and start cooking. But less as a solitary activity, more as a communal activity.
00:18:11
Speaker
I occasionally have cooking parties where we come together and we all make some you know, we we cook together we don't just it's not just like me cooking for everybody like we I have my friends come over and we make a dinner together and like in the old days, you know women used to sit around and they would they would make um tomales or uh for or they would make pasta or whatever and they would all be sitting there gabbing and talking and or you know plucking um
00:18:37
Speaker
fresh snap peas or whatever. And that becomes the activity. You don't have to be sitting there, gnoshing on fancy appetizers and having a glass of wine. You can actually just sit around a kitchen counter, making something together, gabby. And it's so much more fun. And when that meal comes together, it's so much more delicious. So we need more of that. And so I'm glad we're in a culture where food is and cooking are becoming
00:19:04
Speaker
more prominent. Whether or not all the recipes work, that's another issue. But the fact is, people are talking about cooking again. And so I feel like maybe that is an undercurrent that's fighting against this notion of quick, convenient foods that we eat.
00:19:21
Speaker
you know, in front of our computers by ourselves. Like we need to make cooking a communal activity again, because part of food is about community. And that has completely gone by the wayside. I started with TV dinners and now, you know, and then drive throughs, you eat in your car, you eat in front of your computer, you eat while you're watching TV.
Engaging Children in Cooking
00:19:41
Speaker
Let's make preparing food and eating together the thing that the social activity for the next decade.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, it has this entertainment value, doesn't it? When everyone's in the kitchen, everyone's helping out. In a family setting, it can be really hard to transition meals away from the familiar to something new.
00:20:04
Speaker
You know, taking in consideration of everyone's sort of taste and texture preferences and allergies and sensitivities. In my own home, my 10-year-old daughter, we're encouraging her to try things and try things again and whether she spits them out or whatever, we just kind of take the moment to celebrate the fact that she tried. So it's a process. We're trying to involve her now in cooking. I started her with a plastic knife and now she's graduated to a real knife.
00:20:31
Speaker
In fact, we made Brussels sprouts last night and she helped prepare the Brussels sprouts and then she ate the Brussels sprouts because they were something that she participated in.
00:20:41
Speaker
That's really important. And I have three adult grown children, so I remember when they were growing up too. But I think one of the problems is that in Western countries, there's a problem of having too much choice. And when you think about historically, people ate what was available. You didn't say, well, I only want plain pasta with butter, because that wasn't an option. Or I only want craft mac and cheese.
00:21:07
Speaker
I think part of the problem is when I remember from other parents, oftentimes they have this notion that there's kids food and adult food. And so you have to prepare kids food for them. And so they started out with that. And then that's kind of what becomes the norm rather than everyone eats the same thing. I mean, imagine in India or Africa or even Japan where I grew up, you didn't have different foods. Like everybody ate the same food.
00:21:34
Speaker
You don't have the luxury of saying, I want that instead of this. And so I think that's part of the problem. We live at a very distorted time in history, I think, that is potentially harming more than just our health, but the planet, our sense of community, our sense of family. And so there's a lot to think about. I'm not saying I have the answers.
Rancho Compassion and Sustainable Education
00:21:59
Speaker
My kids went through
00:22:00
Speaker
periods of, I don't like this either, but it happened usually later after they got acclimated to food amongst their friends, but not early in life.
00:22:13
Speaker
So I've been following you for a while and have seen kind of time and time again that you're not afraid to dive headfirst into any conversation. Veganism for you is a form of activism. And the younger generations coming up behind us, they're smart. They're concerned. And more than really any other era, our children are turning away from animal products because of the ethics.
00:22:37
Speaker
And to that end, I am so inspired by your Rancho Compassion project where you guys are rescuing farm animals, commercial farm animals. What is it about these places of refuge, these animals that are no longer being mistreated, no longer destined for early slaughter? What is it about this place and this work that you guys are doing that's creating a platform for activism so that people can think about their food differently?
00:23:03
Speaker
Well, truth be told, Rancho Compassion, a farmed animal sanctuary that I started in 2015, has shifted its focus. Yes, we are, these animals that we've rescued, and we rescued two Maui pigs recently, two pigs that were
00:23:19
Speaker
The farm shut down. The fire went through. The mama pig went into a pond. The next day gave birth to these piglets. There were a whole bunch of them and a rescue reached out to us because the farmer decided not to go back into business and they flew two little piglets out to us. So we are, okay, I'm digressing. What I want to say is that the purpose of Rancho Compassion is to inspire change in people's hearts.
00:23:48
Speaker
And to that end, we've started an education program. So we have about 50 kids, students coming every single week. We have an after-school program. We have school field trips. We have kids from all kinds of schools. We have kids from a school for kids with disabilities and on the spectrum. We have another one, at-risk kids that come with chaperones.
00:24:11
Speaker
And we have an organic garden as well, too. So what happens is kids learn about animal care. They learn about these animals that have been rescued. And when they're taken out of these situations, they blossom. Many of them do. Sometimes it takes time. Sometimes they're traumatized. Just like you might experience a dog that's maybe been traumatized in the past and takes a while for that dog to feel comfortable in your own home. Same thing with some of these animals. And others just completely open up
00:24:37
Speaker
And you begin to see them as individuals, just like you would see your own dogs, which is really exciting. And you see their personalities and how intelligent they are, but we don't preach. We never talk about veganism, but we have all these kids that come here and they, you know, like regularly in the afterschool program or whatever.
00:24:54
Speaker
They spend time with kids. They might take care of an aging sheep who's got a bad leg and help administer some sort of therapy to her and calm her down. And then they go and get their hands dirty in the soil in our organic garden and plant vegetables and harvest them. And naturally, they start to make this connection that, oh, these animals are my friends. And food comes out of this garden. And we don't have to say anything.
00:25:22
Speaker
And so we've got kids ranging from seven years old through high school participating in different ways. And really that is our focus is how do we change hearts and minds in a gentle fashion by just introducing them to the inner lives of animals and telling them about, teaching them about the food system and regenerating the soil, native plant, native crops. We have those as well.
Miyoko's YouTube Channel: Accessibility and Joy
00:25:49
Speaker
So that's what our focus at Rancho Compassion
00:25:52
Speaker
Very cool. All right. I appreciate that clarification, but gosh, what an amazing opportunity it is to inspire and teach and encourage and support kids through that process. It's beautiful.
00:26:05
Speaker
For my last question, Miyoko, I, first off, your YouTube channel is a riot. It's so casual and so welcoming. I really love what you guys are doing with that. So, uh, it's the vegan good life, I think, right? The vegan good life with Miyoko. Yeah. It's just, it's, it's scrappy, you know, there's no, I don't have a budget. So my daughter's friend videotapes me and edits it.
00:26:29
Speaker
And oftentimes I don't even have an agenda. And she'll say, hey, I could film you tomorrow. And I'm like, oh, OK, let me see what I got in my fridge. And so it's just kind of thrown together. But it's very real, we'll put it that way. And my goal, like I was talking about before, my goal is to take the mystery out of cooking and to get people relaxed in the kitchen.
Ethical Product Recommendations
00:26:51
Speaker
You know that it doesn't have to be perfect. I am the master of dropping things and spilling things. If you watch a few of my episodes, you will see it more than once. That has its entertainment value, I have to admit. So if I was to follow you around with a camera, I would love to go grocery shopping with you. But what I'm really curious about, if you were to have your hand basket,
00:27:10
Speaker
What are some of the products? What are some of the food brands? Maybe give a shout out to a couple brands that you really appreciate what they've done. What are some of the things that you would be putting in your grocery cart that people may be able to find in their local grocery store?
00:27:25
Speaker
Well, I would steer them to something like Rancho Gordo's selection of heirloom beans. So Rancho Gordo is a brand that has begun to grow these beautiful heirloom beans at a time where we, as an agricultural movement, we have moved towards commodity crops and GMOs and decreased the diversity. And Rancho Gordo is a wonderful company that has
00:27:52
Speaker
really great packaging as well too. It's great marketing, but they have all sorts of beans that you've never ever heard of. And so they've revived them, they're growing them, they're packaging them. So I'm really excited about them. You can get a subscription package with them. I also love smaller brands that are using clean ingredients.
00:28:18
Speaker
For example, if you're drinking almond milk, it's expensive, but there's a brand called Three Trees and started by an Asian woman. And you hear about, oh, there's three almonds and a glass of almond milk. So Three Trees actually makes it with a lot of almonds. So you're actually getting the nutrition of almonds. You're not just drinking a watery almond beverage. So I look for things like that that are
00:28:45
Speaker
that are cleaner, that are supporting companies that I believe are ethical as well. Would you say the B Corp certification is one of the things that you're looking for?
00:28:55
Speaker
Yes and no. I think there is some greenwashing with B Corp certifications. But for the most part, definitely, it's very, very hard to get B Corp certification. There's so many different facets you have to think about. It's not just about sustainability. It's about whether you're paying a fair wage and so many other aspects as well too, and whether or not you can prove this stuff. So I think what I mean by greenwashing is not so much by B Corp themselves, but
00:29:25
Speaker
companies that might, I don't know, manipulate information.
Conclusion: Consumer Power and Sustainability
00:29:31
Speaker
And so it's hard to know, but I think the intent is good. And I think B Corp has changed their motive investigation over time and become more expansive and rigorous at the same time. So I think, yeah, looking out for B Corp, oh, world, this is not food, world-centric products that makes like paper plates and things like that. That's a really great, that's something that,
00:29:54
Speaker
It's all compostable. Their plastic forks and knives aren't plastic, etc. So that's a non-food item, but that's a B Corp. It just came to my head. Yeah. Now that type of manufacturing where they're using plant materials to make things that were accustomed to them being plastic, that's a trend that's important. I hope we see a lot more of that. Yes.
00:30:20
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for your time, Myoka, and most importantly, for everything that you've done for the planet and for the people around you and making this world a better place. Appreciate you. Well, thank you, Corwin. Remember, it takes all of us as consumers to change the food system. It certainly does. Have a great day. You too.
00:30:42
Speaker
Well, there you have it. Miyoko's plant-based legacy is a beautiful thing. I hope you enjoyed listening in. Please grab one of her cookbooks and follow her on YouTube. From all of us here at Ethical Food Group, thanks for listening. I'm Corwin Hebert, and I'll see you in the future.