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The American Craftsman Podcast Ep. 43| Flat & Square
44 Plays4 years ago
**Patreon Livestream Design Workshop: Tuesday July 13, 11am EST**
On Episode 43 of The American Craftsman Podcast, hosted by Greene Street Joinery, we talk about the how and why of flat and square lumber.
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Beer of the Week (New Belgium Voodoo Ranger Juicy Haze): https://www.newbelgium.com/beer/voodoo-ranger-juicy-haze-ipa/
Tool of the Week: (Kleenguard Maverick Safety Glasses) https://amzn.to/2UaWBV1
Greene Street Joinery is a custom design & build shop located in Monmouth County, New Jersey. We build multigenerational furniture with an eco-friendly and sustainable mindset.
Inspired and guided by the ideals of the Arts and Crafts movement, we believe in the use of traditional craftsmanship and simple, well-proportioned forms; sustainability and ethical practices; and importantly, taking pleasure in our work as craftsmen to create quality pieces of enduring value.
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Transcript
Partnership with Montana Brand Tools
00:00:15
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a change
00:00:22
Speaker
The American Craftsman Podcast is proud to partner with Montana Brand Tools. The West was built by people with strength and great pride in their workmanship. It was a necessity that early settlers of Montana have a strong will, a resilient character, and great determination to tame the rugged landscape while adapting to its dramatic climate. That spirit made in the USA pride and craftsmanship is alive today, both in how Montana Brand Tools are manufactured and how they perform.
00:00:48
Speaker
Montana Brand Power Tool accessories are manufactured utilizing proprietary state-of-the-art CNC machining equipment and the highest quality materials available. Montana Brand tools are guaranteed for life to be free of defects in material and workmanship because we build these tools with pride and determination.
00:01:05
Speaker
Montana Brand Tools are manufactured by Rocky Mountain Twist, located in Ronin, Montana. Montana Brand's heritage comes from a long line of innovative power tool accessories.
Listener Discount Code
00:01:14
Speaker
Use coupon code American Craftsman for 10% off your order at MontanaBrandTools.com.
Planning Listener Meetup
00:01:20
Speaker
And we're live. Yeah, buddy, back in the studio. Yeah, episode 43 of the American Craftsman podcast. 42 was on the road. Yeah. People seem to like the episode.
00:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, there was that that road angst added in as extra feature. Yeah, I had to keep it. That was that was toned down, let me tell you. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just driving the two miles from the shop to here to your place and the studio was an adventure. It's it's bad this time of year.
00:02:02
Speaker
Oh, I wanted to say we're planning the little meet up thing, get together, whatever the hell you want to call it.
Beer of the Week: Voodoo Ranger
00:02:10
Speaker
It's going to be on a Saturday, you know, towards the end of July or early August. So let us know, you know, what works. It's like a month from now. Yeah. Yeah. Anywhere between, you know, three, three to six weeks from now. Yeah.
00:02:29
Speaker
So yeah, if you have an opinion, we can't accommodate you all, obviously, but... No, no. Let us know what works. Probably about four o'clock. Yeah. Well, I need a beer. Yeah, me too. It's been quite a fucking day. So I might as well get into the beer. Yeah, that edgeband. Oh yeah, here, I gotta get my... I just got a scam likely call. I have a feeling it was from...
00:03:01
Speaker
Taco Tools. Crack this one open. So the beer this week, uh, this is from Denise, Manny's girlfriend.
First Female Patron Celebration
00:03:12
Speaker
Thanks again. This is the second, the second beer, um, from the one that we had two weeks ago. So this is Voodoo Ranger by New Belgium, Juicy Haze IPA. You know, they're cutting the blurb out of the can these days.
00:03:33
Speaker
Enjoyed by the 8th of August. Oh, yeah. Wasn't she elevated to fiance last week? You're gonna get Manny in trouble. Two weeks ago. Manny, just no, I didn't say anything. I, you know, uh,
00:03:56
Speaker
Listen to that pour. Smells good. So we have our, as of last week, we have our first female patron. Don't do it. Mary Beth Jones. Yeah. A woman of science. And, uh,
00:04:18
Speaker
That means we have at least two women listening. That's a 100% increase in just two weeks. Imagine if we kept that up, how broad our audience could be. That's a good point.
Practicality Over Precision: Beer Cans & Tools
00:04:35
Speaker
Definitely hazy. It's a juicy haze. Cheers. Cheers to you, my friend.
00:04:48
Speaker
Got that last bit in there. Not bad. Oh, yeah. It's nice and cool down here in the studio. Yeah. Let me pull up a... I don't like when there's no... There's no little story on there. Yeah. I mean, they got the room. There's a ton of negative space on this. Yeah. I agree with it. Just alcohol, 7.5% by volume. Yeah. Yes, I'm 21.
00:05:19
Speaker
You can't read about beer unless you're 21. But you can get heroin on the corner. You wouldn't be able to read this. Look at this how they put this over the white. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't. Packed with bright tropical aromas and look like I said tortillas. Brilliant citrusy flavors. This hazy IPA wraps up with a pleasantly smooth finish. Listen to New Belgium.
00:05:50
Speaker
Get your act together. They can do better than that. Poor web design. It has like this, like a pineapple juice can or something. These ridges. Oh, yeah. You know, I was a kid. I used to like Coco Lopez.
00:06:02
Speaker
Yeah. We used to have pineapple juice in the can. You ever have that? Like those 46 ounce cans? Oh, yeah. Like not quite a number 10. Yeah, exactly. And I could still see my grandma. She would put it in the sink, you know, let the water run on the top of it. And then that was when you had the can open. I would make those little triangle punches. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was like the last
00:06:25
Speaker
the last thing that you had a punch to get into pineapple juice. I remember that. Yeah. Dole, you know, dole pineapple juice. Yeah. And we used to get a little tiny glass for breakfast because I guess it was probably expensive or something. You know, they also, yeah, I mean, very sugary. Yeah. They used to put that out to us in the morning. It was gold. Demi toss. I want more juice. No, that's enough.
Safety Glasses Recommendation
00:06:55
Speaker
Oh man. So those people that are at home watching, they're probably saying, what the hell happened to Rob's hair? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that when I first put it on, but then I forgot to, um, I got myself a haircut, my biannual haircut. Um,
00:07:14
Speaker
Mother nature's taking care of the rest of it. She's a cruel mistress. But the ball happens. The bomber took what was left. It's not a stress.
00:07:28
Speaker
That's it. I keep saying every time I get a haircut, I keep saying, you know, I'm going to go back in like six weeks, two months. I'm going to get on a routine, but I never do. I usually, you know, six months, eight months. You got to hand over the responsibility of your wife and then she just make all the appointments for you. She does. Six o'clock. You got, yeah, she does make all my appointments like for massage and all that stuff.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah. Give her something to do. She loves being in control of that stuff. Are you kidding me? Holy cow. So you want to go straight to the tool of the week? Yeah. Yeah. Might as well. Let me get this. It's not the brain, is it? No, we're still waiting to do that one. We're going to save that for our special guest.
Shop Safety Gear Discussion
00:08:22
Speaker
So this week's Tool of the Week, I think I may have mentioned these before on an episode that we maybe talked about like safety equipment. Yeah. But these are my favorite safety glasses. These are made by Clean Guard and they're called the Maverick. I've always been hesitant to wear safe, not hesitant, but
00:08:50
Speaker
I just haven't wanted to wear safety glasses. Whatever phrase would be appropriate there. It's a good habit to get into, but it's a hard one to start. Yeah, so when we were building the deck at your house, I got a piece of pressure treated in my eye and it bothered me for a while. Yeah. And that was finally the thing that kicked me in the ass after 10 years to wear. I always wear safety glasses like when I'm cutting metal, but now I wear them a lot. I wear them probably
00:09:18
Speaker
If I'm doing a cutting task, I'm pretty much wearing them unless I'm like if I'm like sanding or something like that I don't wear them but
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's these that have allowed me to do that because they're comfortable. I feel like they don't distort my vision. Now Manny has them and he he feels like they do. So your mileage may vary, but you know, they have the nice side protectors here. Little rubber on the nose, but not too much and a little rubber on the ears. But again, not too much because they get stuck on your head and you can feel the rubber.
00:09:56
Speaker
They gotta be comfortable if otherwise you don't really want to wear them. I've had safety glasses that when you wear them for a long time they hurt the sides of your head. These don't do that for me and they just they don't fog up they don't get scratched very easily they they get a little dusty but you know I've had safety glasses that are like statically charged and you wear them for five minutes you can't see anything.
Tool Organization for Installations
00:10:20
Speaker
You know, these I blow them off every couple days, but that's really it. Yeah. And I wear them with a like a lanyard kind of deal that go on the stems. So I could just let them hang around my neck. So, yeah, if you're looking for a good pair of safety glasses, like eight bucks. So the cheap.
00:10:40
Speaker
You know, I used to wear mine all the time until I started wearing glasses regularly. And I have this, I don't know, I wouldn't call it an insurance program, but it's like a thing where when you buy your glasses, I can go in and now if they're scratched up or damaged, they'll replace the lenses.
00:11:01
Speaker
And I do that every now and again, and you could see how much stuff actually goes up if you're wearing them all the time because there are lots of little nicks and things like that. Yeah, and those are in glass lenses. Yeah, these are plastic. Oh, what the hell was I going to say? Oh, these, like, this is a pair I got for home for doing the weed whacking.
00:11:27
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, so I like them so much I got another one and I've been wearing that same pair for over a year Yeah, and they're I mean no sign of last almost forever Yeah, unless you you know drop it onto concrete or something but I you know they fall off my head and hit the the concrete floor in the shop and So yeah, they're pretty durable
00:11:51
Speaker
I love the safety glasses. Another thing where I guess one bright spot from COVID is that it kind of got us used to wearing a mask because we reach for a mask more than we ever used to. Like we're cutting something that's
Removing Snipe from Woodmaster Planer
00:12:08
Speaker
noxious in some way or just extra dusty. Yeah.
00:12:11
Speaker
You used to never really go for a mask, but now we have one because I used to have to wear it when every time I went to the store. So it's hanging around, right? That's another good safety habit. Yeah, just a little, you know, it takes little steps. But yeah, those are nice glasses.
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah, and they look better to me than like, oh, yes, I don't know, like those all clear ones. Yeah, I don't know. They're kind of nerdy. Well, I mean, I guess these are nerdy, but now this is a classic look. Yeah. Not quite the like. You know, they have like the welding, the old school welding kind of glasses like that, like the really, really thick frame one, not quite like that, but
00:13:02
Speaker
It's almost like the Elvis Costello glasses. Yeah, like Buddy Holly kind of deal. Yeah. Yeah, very good. So as always, we'll have a link down there. Yeah. We have a decent amount of questions this week. Should we get going on? Almost a full two-pager, yeah. Wow.
00:13:32
Speaker
You want to take this first one? Sure. What's one tool that increases your productivity the most in the shop? I think for me, it's the drum sander. However, it needs to be set up properly and well maintained. And that's from, uh, one of our patrons. Are you going to help me out with that name? Whoa, check. Whoa, check. Well, thanks. Whoa, check. Uh, uh, what do you think, Jeff?
00:13:55
Speaker
I'm inclined to kind of agree with the caveat that, you know, our drum sander is kind of a little bit finicky. So when it is working and it is an application where it makes sense because, you know, drum sander leaves sanding lines. So if it's a paint grade thing, the drum sander can save days, you know, days worth of sanding. Yeah.
00:14:26
Speaker
I can't really top that, I mean, because all the other stuff is sort of like an essential, like you couldn't put the table saw or the plane or the jointer in there. And sanding is everybody's favorite task. And flattening a nice top is the best, isn't it? Yeah, we're getting ready to do a 12 footer. Yeah.
00:14:53
Speaker
So, but yeah, sometimes if those things aren't set up correctly, they create another level of work that, you know, you didn't anticipate. I'm thinking, I can't think of anything, increased productivity. You know, for us, because we're constantly doing different things, the productivity kind of
00:15:16
Speaker
is job by job dependent. So we always need to create a new way to be more productive because what we're doing is different than what we did before. Yeah, I mean, dust collection, keeping things clean, anything that'll keep the shop clean will help in productivity. That way we don't have to stop and clean up. So anything with a good vac port on it, like
00:15:39
Speaker
Today we use the track saw a whole bunch and the dust collection I think was phenomenal. It was really better than the table saw because the table saw we had that dust shooting off the top of the blade. Yeah. And we don't have one of those dust guards like that. Yeah. We're cutting on top of that foam so it can't go down out of the out of the work. So. Yeah. But the drum sander when it's working, it's it's like a miracle.
00:16:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think if you're if you're looking at it in terms of like amount of time saved that nothing can when that thing is working and it's a time that you can use it, nothing can save you. No, no. I mean, we had a wide belt. Same idea. Yeah. Brings a smile to the face when it comes out. It's like, yeah, baby. Yeah.
00:16:29
Speaker
All right, so we're all in agreement you me and well check yeah, all right That's nice. Got one here from Sal. No Jersey guy one of our patrons Sal the carpenter on Instagram How do you organize your install kit? I'd love to see a tour someday Yeah, well
00:16:49
Speaker
For me, I mean, I have a tool bag that I got specifically for the install stuff. And I kind of really didn't go any further than that because you have so much stuff. That really was your stock and trade there for a long time. But back in the olden days, I took a cue from when I was a catering chef.
00:17:12
Speaker
I would just make a list based on the menu. I'd go and I'd go through it step by step in my mind, the tools I was going to need. So I don't have like a specific, I didn't have a specific set of tools that were my install tools. I would just pull most of that stuff from the shop.
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that's basically what we do. Like we went up to Newark last week and we only took what we needed. Like we didn't bring a power planer or or any nailers because we weren't going to be doing any of that stuff. And there's only so much room between the material and the tools. And so we just bring what we need. So it's really a job dependent. Like if it was a kitchen and bring the whole kit. I mean, I have all the all this stuff is here at my house now for the most part.
00:18:04
Speaker
We'd have the chop saw, the planer, the nailers, the grinder, all the drills, hole saws, Forzner bits. So it's really a case by case sort of thing. You might go to one install with just a set of drills and a little kit. Yeah. We didn't really bring that much when we went out to Easton.
00:18:27
Speaker
No, because we knew, you know, they're basically pieces of furniture that we weren't even going to or no, we planned on screwing the tops to the wall, the top section. But yes, set the bases, scribe the toe. So we brought a block plane.
00:18:42
Speaker
and screw the top to the wall. And that was it. That's right. That's our kit. Yeah. The other thing is we don't install, we don't spend that many days out of the shop. So the idea of having like an install trailer, which we toyed with at one point just didn't make any sense because we'd have just so much stuff sitting there.
00:19:04
Speaker
turn it into a dumping ground for some shitty tools yeah that's that really didn't work you know because all our best stuff we want to use all the time anyway yeah yeah so there you have it Sal boy this one this is funny because
00:19:23
Speaker
You don't, you don't see this tool mentioned very often. And this is from Cody. See home in 92 on Instagram. He's asking us, do you have any tips to remove snipe from a seven 18 wood master planer?
00:19:38
Speaker
Well, definitely don't call it customer service because we know the customer service over there at Woodmaster is no good. We have a Woodmaster. We have a bigger version, I think, right? What size? A seven, five, three, eight, or... Well, we have a drum sander. Oh, okay. Oh, yes. Which we were just talking about. Yeah. So he's got a planer, which is probably a planer molder.
00:20:02
Speaker
I mean, we don't know anything specifically about this planer, but with any planer, you know, you want to look at your rollers where the snipe is going to originate and the beds. So you want to make sure your beds are coplaner. If anything, you kind of want them.
00:20:21
Speaker
a little higher than the center so that you have a hollow in the center when you put a straight edge. And you want to make sure that your rollers are pushing it in the correct places. Yeah, the pressure is right. It's all the typical stuff for tuning up a planer. And that's where the snipe is, as Jeff said.
00:20:43
Speaker
the pressure feed rollers that if they, if your planer has those little rollers on the bottom, make sure they're set up at the right height. And hopefully the manual will tell you because it's just wooden master. God bless them. Uh, their, their customer service was not very, uh, service oriented towards us. Yeah.
Working on New vs. Historic Homes
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah. We, we talked to them several times. They didn't give us much help.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah so like if you don't know what snipe is you can have two kinds of snipe really like a snipe and then almost like a reverse snipe but snipe is when you know the board is getting fed in and the leading edge goes up and it ends up taking more out and then once it hits these pressure rollers it gets pushed back down and and
00:21:35
Speaker
helicopter yeah my gun and it planes it to the thickness that you're looking for so let's say you set it to an inch the snipe is going to be you know 31 30 seconds or even bigger than that but you'll often see it's the distance between the infeed roller and the outfit roller is the is the snipe right so you need to get that that thing is low huh
00:21:57
Speaker
Yeah, you need to get that in feed roller down, pushing the work down more. But again, it could be the table you could be feeding in uphill, and it's driving the leading edge of that board up into the cutter head. So it's, you know, it's a lot of tuning, trial and error, you know, sometimes you can't get it all out because, you know, these machines are we're talking about machines that are
00:22:26
Speaker
although like are used in pro shops like even our powermatic it's like a prosumer kind of tool it's not this isn't an industrial planer it's a you know it's the same thing that a guy might have who's a hobbyist woodworker but
00:22:41
Speaker
You know, if two don't write, they serve you well. A lot of the manuals nowadays even say, you know, you can't get rid of all the snipe. They're kind of putting that caveat into their written literature now, because I guess people start complaining. I call 911, you know, find out when the fireworks display is coming on. They're going to get my dog license.
00:23:08
Speaker
Got our next question here from our buddy Corey, CT Woodwork, down Long Island. If you had the opportunity to do a whole house of woodwork, would it be a new in a new home or an old historic home or both? Oh, well, I think we take any opportunity we had that given us. Yeah, I mean, it's a tough choice. It's a tough question.
00:23:35
Speaker
You know, if I could choose, I would go for the new home because I feel like it would have a much broader, I don't know what word to use, menu available where we could go in several different styles, whereas the historic home might, you know, you really want to stay true to that form.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, what stage of design are they in? Is the house, is the house already built and it's, but it's new or is it, you know, to the point where he can have some influence over the rooms themselves?
00:24:17
Speaker
It's, we've discussed it in, in different ways in the past, but that's quite a dream. I think of any, um, especially an accomplished woodworker, you know, being able to make a multiple suite kind of thing, because usually
00:24:34
Speaker
all we really get a shot at is one room, maybe a couple of little things on the side like we did with Mendelssohn. And we didn't really have carte blanche with that. All these spaces are very defined spaces. Yeah, and they have a vision before they get to us.
00:24:57
Speaker
I'm gonna say new just because I'm gonna hope that it's all square and plumb and level, you know.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, if it's standalone furniture, it doesn't really matter. But if it's if there's like a bunch of built in work and stuff, working in an old home can it can suck the joy out of making things. You're like, well, the wall might be out this much. We got to account for this and that. Which that's not the fun part of woodworking. It's, you know,
00:25:30
Speaker
Well, we really don't enjoy the installation as much as the other parts. I just mean having to account for it in the fabrication. Yeah. Like, oh, we got to put a two inch year on this because the wall might be an inch and a half out of a plumb. Yeah. Yeah. That's a drag. That's for sure. It just, you know, it, it.
00:25:51
Speaker
wedges its way into the aesthetics with, uh, making allowances, styles and stuff that are the same width. And yeah, so yeah, but new houses are susceptible to that shit too. Yeah. I wonder what Corey's choice would be. He does a lot of nice work. I've seen him, uh, on Instagram a bunch lately.
00:26:16
Speaker
I'm gonna guess he would I'm gonna guess he would go with us on a new home. I don't know Yeah, I don't know I'm gonna
SawStop Table Saw Safety Features
00:26:26
Speaker
agree. All right, let us know Cory
00:26:30
Speaker
Um, so, oh, John Peters, John Peters on Instagram. Have you set off your saw stops since you got it? We have not, which is good because that means that if we didn't have a saw stop, nobody would have been cut.
00:26:47
Speaker
Yeah. Also we're cheap so we don't want to spend the $80. We're not cheap. We're we're we like to spend our money wisely. Yeah. We wouldn't want to just toss $80 down the bin on one of those things. Yeah. And $25 for sharpening. Yeah. Yeah. You know replacing some teeth. Yeah. So I would say it's it's good on all fronts. Yeah.
00:27:13
Speaker
I do follow. So I'll stop on Instagram and you'll see those posts where it'll be, you know, Joe from Joe's wood shop and has the embedded blade, like a picture of their fingers, just a little scratch.
00:27:31
Speaker
It's good to know but I don't ever think of the saw stuff in that way. I mean I think of it as a saw when I'm using it. Yeah I mean there's definitely been times where there's like a cut that I've made a cut on the saw stuff that I wouldn't make on a saw without the technology.
00:27:51
Speaker
You know, people think I hear a lot of people saying that a saw stop can muddy the lines for people between what's safe and what's not. But I mean, that's on you to realize that, OK, I'm using a saw right now that has.
00:28:07
Speaker
a piece of technology that makes it so that I cannot get cut. So if there's some sort of kickback, my hand gets dragged across the blade. I mean, you should never be making a cut where your hand is going to go into the blade with a regular, regularly. That's, I mean, that's a kickback situation. It's a kickback is when you need to be worried. Those are the things you can't prevent.
00:28:29
Speaker
So if you can't distinguish between a time where you're using a saw stop and you go to somebody else's shop, or you're using a saw in your shop that doesn't have it, well, that's on you. It has nothing to do with the saw stop itself. And people kind of, I feel like, attribute that as a fault to saw stop, that it makes people like, not lazy, but sort of carefree with the table saw.
00:28:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think SawStop's got detractors based on the price. Maybe in... And the tech, the whole like holding on to the technology. Yeah, yeah. Because we have a Unisaw and a SawStop. And I know for a fact, because I'm thinking about now, I don't have any mental or physical adjustment when I'm moving between the two saws.
00:29:19
Speaker
Me neither. It's more like a, if I'm doing a set up. Yeah. Like a weird cutting a really high cut with a thin, you know, a very narrow distance between the blade and the fence. You and I are so weird. We're probably more worried about hitting the saw blade and feeling bad that we like have to shut the saw down. Like explain it to the other guy. Oh, I'm sorry. I don't know what happened.
00:29:49
Speaker
When I had that kickback, I could have sworn that it went off, but it didn't. Yeah. But I think the saw did stop or may, you know, I have that knee. Yeah. I hit that paddle. Yeah. I think I just instinctually turned the saw off. Mm hmm. Yeah. So we haven't set it off.
Milling Square and Flat Lumber
00:30:11
Speaker
And you know, I knock on wood. We hope to never set it off.
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah, and let us know if you've set yours off, John. Yeah, John has a soft stop as well. I'm assuming not. I'm sure you probably would know. We would know. Would have said something. All right. You want to read the next one? Got one here from Randall. He's a repeat offender, RM Crafts and Customs on Instagram. What is your process to getting square and flat lumber? I've been having issues with getting flat stock. Hmm. I think it's a pretty simple answer.
00:30:40
Speaker
Yeah, we've we've addressed this a couple of times. So I guess it's something that isn't it. I mean, we might take it for granted, I think. You know, you have to join and plane and proper technique on the joint, which is the first stop.
00:31:00
Speaker
is really what it's all about, because the planer is only going to mirror the surface you put on the bed. Right. You're going to get a parallel to whatever the hell you did on the jointer. So it may be that a lot of folks don't quite know how to operate the planer. It's not like you just push the board through and magic happens. Yeah, the jointer. Yeah, the jointer. I'm sorry. There's a certain amount of technique and finesse involved.
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean you don't want to strong arm the material because if you push it out of the shape that it's in
00:31:36
Speaker
Well, when you let go, it's gonna go back to the same shape it was in. That's why, you know, at first, when I first saw a joiner with a power feeder, I'm like, man, this is an awesome idea. But then I'm thinking to myself, this is a horrible idea. Yeah, because it's holding it down. Right. And, you know, a four-sided planer, I'm sure, I don't know exactly how those work, but I'm assuming it's the same thing. It gets pushed into all these feed rollers and stuff and gets pressed, you know, into a channel to run through this four-sided cutter.
00:32:05
Speaker
Um, but yeah, you have to really like, especially the first pass, like forward pressure only. Yeah. Yeah. And very light pressure on the outfeed. And then once you establish a flat surface, it's all pressure on the outfeed. Yeah. Uh, because the, the cutter head is what's setting the.
00:32:24
Speaker
the height, I should call it. So I would maybe suggest watching a couple of videos online. I'm sure there are a few good ones available. Because reading about it might not, if you're having trouble jointing the face of a board, reading might not help you so much as maybe seeing somebody do it.
00:32:48
Speaker
But that's really it. You need the face jointed flat because you're going to use that. You're going to flip the board up and use that reference against the fence. Now you have your 90. And that's the basis for everything that follows. Yeah.
00:33:05
Speaker
It's all about that. Yeah, it's all about that first face joint Yeah, even you know you could you could get a relatively square edge on the table saw even if you didn't joint the edge But that face joint is what's gonna make you need to have two perfectly parallel Flat first you need to get flat and then make a parallel face to that flat face. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I
00:33:30
Speaker
Like if it's, what am I trying to say here, if it's smooth it doesn't mean it's flat. Just because you clean the whole face doesn't mean it's flat. And your planer is going to push that thing flat. So ideally you don't want it pushing anything. Right, and let's expand on and tell about, just touch on
00:33:51
Speaker
the process again that we use with the patience of bringing the lumber in and acclimation and and you know evenly taking material off trying you know as best as possible stop the wood from wanting to return to its yeah
00:34:11
Speaker
Yeah, so you want to move slow and you want to try and move equally from all sides. So if you're going to face joint your material, you have to plane the material the same day. So if you take a 30 second off the face to get it flat, then you want to plane off a 30 second. And ideally, you want to joint an edge and rip it, which we don't always do that. But the faces are more important because there's so much more surface area.
00:34:39
Speaker
because you get a difference in humidity between the face and the side, let's say you don't plane it, the side that was on planes, that's when you're gonna get cupping. So you wanna try and move in from the rough sawn, or even if it's S4S, move in equally at all times, because that's why once we'll clean a face on the jointer,
00:35:03
Speaker
run it through the planer, clean that face, and then we start flipping it. So you alternate every pass. Obviously, sometimes you have to keep planing one face to get a clean, but you want to flip it every time. That way you're coming in equally from both, you know, both. Right. You don't want to take a quarter inch off the bottom, so to speak, and then a 16th off the top. You know, the center is always going to be the wettest because it takes, you know,
00:35:28
Speaker
It takes the longest to dry and unless you got your lumber straight out of the kiln, it's reaching some sort of equilibrium. I mean, I don't know of a lumber yard that has a, I'm sure they exist, fully conditioned storage where all the wood is being stored in a perfectly, you know, maintained space.
00:35:48
Speaker
All the ones we know of are big metal buildings with, you know, no heat or air conditioning. So they just basically keep it out of the rain and sun. It's basically just outside with a roof. Right. But, you know, the kiln drawing does set. It sets the fibers to some degree. As we found out. Yeah.
00:36:10
Speaker
Uh, this is a related question from, uh, uh, who we got here. Alan was one of our patrons. Al about it on Instagram. See how I put those backs. Yeah. That's that's pretty clever. How flat is flat enough? One milling stock.
00:36:26
Speaker
specifically face joining. Well, there you go. I don't have enough room in my shop for a jointer, uh, in parentheses, but plenty of room for woodpecker tools. Did you add that? All right. So I'm forced to mill lumber on a sled in my planer. I sometimes end up with a slight bow or cup.
00:36:48
Speaker
about a sixteenth inch or less in the center over three feet and was wondering if this is acceptable for casework or if I should be strict and build only with dead flat arrow straight stock. Remilling the board would take too much material off my finished thickness. Again, it's Alan, one of our patrons.
00:37:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean listen Alan, if your stock isn't dead flat and narrow straight, you better just hang up the apron and go home. Nah, I'm just kidding. Actually, it's funny, I just got a message from Cory. He said, so one day you're making a steel cabinet and now a tree.
00:37:23
Speaker
What do you guys what do you guys don't make what don't you guys make? We make we did are they writing checks? Yeah, money green Making charcuterie boards next week. There's no money in that open Yeah, I mean Alan it's really all about
00:37:49
Speaker
you know, what you can get away with. So as long as it's not impeding the, you know, the finished product of your case work, then it is what it is. You get it as flat as you can. Yeah. I mean, that's not bad. A 16th on three feet.
00:38:04
Speaker
It's not great, but... You know, you shoot for perfect, and usually you get close. Yeah. Hope for the best, expect the worst.
Brand Loyalty and Tool Selection
00:38:20
Speaker
Our stuff, our machines, and our shop is tuned and primed for that sort of work. So that's why our results are almost consistently right on the money.
00:38:35
Speaker
Yeah, like we're more likely to screw up a plywood box than we are. Where'd you put that biscuit? Because that's not what we do day in, day out. The rails go on top of the styles, right? So that just happens to be something we do well, and our shop is geared to do it well. It helps that the machines help us.
00:39:06
Speaker
So, you know, it, I think, you know, if it's not flat enough.
00:39:13
Speaker
Yeah, if you're, you get to assembly and you're like having to like crank down on the clamps to get things to be, you know, close up or, or your sides are bowed in and you've got to spread them out. Yeah. I mean, then you know, but I mean, even in that situation, we run into that stuff too and just make it work. Yeah. Yeah. So is it ideal? No. If you had a joiner, you'd be better off. But yeah, as long as you're, you can get the piece built, then it's fine. Then you're doing all right. Yeah.
00:39:43
Speaker
Well, you know, I had a look. Luckily, I previewed this question when I saw the metrics. You did the conversion. I did the conversion. A message from Matt Vizz. You guys are crazy. I guess it's the tree. People like the tree. This is from Jack Thornton, 98 on Instagram. Jack wants to know. Well, first he says, he tells us he had to build a pig of a study desk.
00:40:12
Speaker
40 by 29, 70 by 75 millimeters. It's almost 10 feet long. Um, in American O three inches thick. Yeah. And he had bad grain tear out when doing the final square up any techniques to reduce this. So we're not sure what tools he used. Uh, you know, maybe on one side on the bottom edge, if he was using, uh,
00:40:36
Speaker
Wait, so are those centimeters and then millimeters, 40 centimeters by 2,970 centimeters? I did 2,970 millimeters. It came out to 100 and like, think 13 inches or something like that. 40's got to be centimeters though. Yeah, can't be 40 millimeters. What's a centimeter, like three-eighths of an inch?
00:40:56
Speaker
Yeah, 2.25 for now. Oh, centimeter? Yeah. I don't know. Because it's not 40 millimeters. That's like an inch and a half.
00:41:08
Speaker
I don't know what 40 centimeters is. So do they mix those like the people in? Well, I was thinking maybe. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely not 2,970 centimeters. Yeah, big. I'm going to say let's look this up. 40. Maybe that's a typo. Maybe it's 297. 47. And then 75 he labeled millimeters. Maybe those are centimeters and that's millimeter. 40. Well, that would be huge if it was. Why couldn't it just be 7.5 centimeters?
00:41:38
Speaker
I don't know. 40 centimeter inches. Let's see what it comes out to. 19. 15 and three quarter. That kind of, that sounds about right. I mean, it's a little small, but. Yeah. That would, that would be weird. 15 inches by 10 feet. What's 297 centimeters? Oh, it's the same as 2,907. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same thing. Yeah.
00:42:06
Speaker
Jack let us throw we need some clarification. Yeah, you see anytime you introduce the metric system to an American They just start dribbling. It's the second Australian to do this to us
00:42:20
Speaker
We're going to demand everything be transferred into the imperial system. With your toilets flushing the other way. So we're imagining it's a pretty thick top that he's got tear out. What would we suggest?
00:42:44
Speaker
I'm assuming when he says he's squaring it up, he means on the ends. Yeah, so you could do the old chamfer deal where you put a chamfer on there and you're basically cutting off the tear out or same idea, just feather it out, plane it.
00:43:05
Speaker
you know, from a foot back and you take you could take off a 30 second and no one will know. No, no. Yeah. Any any ideas for avoiding the tear out?
00:43:17
Speaker
I don't know how you cut it, but you could always cut a knife wall Then you know there's no way you'll get tear out as long as you're cutting on that knife wall If you use a track saw you know you got to make sure the track is on the right side and even that's not like we're cutting that melamine today and There's still tear out. I mean it's not it's not a that far fallible
00:43:41
Speaker
But yeah, I think, you know, striking a knife wall is probably the best way. That's what I've done in affairs. So if you just strike a wall, even on all four, you don't need it on all four, but just to be safe, striking around, you know, right where the cut's going to be and... Yeah. I've had good results using that technique.
00:43:59
Speaker
Even with like a multi master and stuff like that like if when I was doing tramp I had to cut a piece of baseboard You know you either put your square there, or you rig something up and cut a nice deep line cut a you know cut 45 degrees to that or whatever and so you make a notch with a one square
00:44:20
Speaker
One perpendicular edge to the face and then off of that and then you have a spot for the saw to ride. Especially if it's a woodpecker square.
00:44:31
Speaker
I think we've alienated some of our listeners with our... I'm getting a lot of messages. ...division of Woodpecker. You know, I guess it's the Woodpecker folks really take themselves pretty seriously, and we don't take ourselves seriously, and we jest quite a bit. I told you, I took a five-year deal with Bridge City. They're flying me out to China next month to see the factory where they build those tools. They're gonna let me meet the kids who make the planes.
00:45:00
Speaker
Yes. We, we know a couple of people who have the what peckers and we, it's mostly been a running joke with between them and us. It's been totally inflamed. Yeah. It's yeah. It's it's really blown out of proportion.
00:45:18
Speaker
I'm still waiting for a gift from Woodpecker. I have less of a problem with Woodpeckers themselves than I do with people, than these brand myopic people who have like 10 million of these squares. Just because, I mean, that's fine. Buy what you want. I got more Lee Nielsen than I need, but
00:45:41
Speaker
I just don't get it. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I don't get it. Like marking tools. That's not even fun. Yeah. Well, people think if you have like a weird plane, like a, I have a, a concave spokeshave that thing barely ever comes out. But when I use it, it's fun. You've got a combo square. It marks just as square as some other thing. It's the ownership. It's the ownership experience. And that is the brilliance of the woodpecker marketing strategy.
00:46:09
Speaker
It's not brilliant. It's sadistic. It's just like Holly Davidson. Yeah, but people don't have five Harley Davidson motorcycle. No, but they got, if you go into any suburban garage that has a Holly in the garage over there, he'll ride it, you know, on Saturdays in the good weather and could just go up and down in a straight line. But he's got 12 Holly's t-shirts. He's got Holly underwear, Holly socks, Holly bandanas.
00:46:39
Speaker
Holly, beer mugs, Holly, everything. Those are accessories, though. I understand there's a price difference, but it's like, you know, these are people that are buying $100, $100, $100, $100, all these $100 items. I don't know. Like I said, if you want to buy them, that's fine. I'm not judging you. I just don't understand it.
00:47:03
Speaker
I think social media is a little bit, um, a bit of the equation here too, because as I, I go on Instagram and I'll flip through the pages and you'll see people with postings where they'll have like a van outfitted with tools and it's,
00:47:22
Speaker
I don't know how many thousands of dollars worth of, let's say, Milwaukee tools. Everything's all red. Brand myopathy. Yeah. Is that what it's called? I don't know. Myopic, I know. That's a great term. And although we have favorites, we're not like that at all. Yeah.
00:47:43
Speaker
and we're always willing to try something else. I just, I don't know, even like the aesthetic of Woodpecker, I just don't like it. It just rubs me the wrong way, I don't know, it's like, I don't know. Red aluminum. It's not even the red, just the shape and the, like that combo square that they have with the indexing, first of all, stupid idea. And it just looks so bad.
00:48:11
Speaker
You mean you don't need to draw a line every sixteenth of an inch? I don't need the square to tell me where one inch is. I know, and if you can't use your eyes to be accurate within, you know, one, two, sixty-four, two, fifty-six. It's wood, people. It's wood. You want to be a metal worker, go get a micrometer.
00:48:33
Speaker
Right. As one of my very first bosses when I was a kid and you know, barely knew which end of the hammer to hold. I was taken forever to cut this piece of plywood sub flooring, you know, cause I was so worried and we say this every now and again now he goes, what the hell are you doing over there? We ain't building the space shuttle.
00:48:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean you may cut it an inch now and it's a 1 1 28th bigger or smaller two hours from now. Right, right.
Favorite Tool: Pentel Graphgear 500 Pencil
00:49:04
Speaker
And as you said many times before, which is totally true, you can mark 100% accurate, but you got to be able to wield the cutting tool, you know, with the same amount of accuracy or it's all for naught. Right. Your line is thicker than the air, you know, in the air. Yeah.
00:49:20
Speaker
So having that precision table saw as opposed to a job site saw or having it, you know, I couldn't see, you know, marking out something meticulously with a woodpecker assortment and then pulling out your jigsaw to cut the line. I can't say it. I think I've seen it. But you could take that thing off and put it on there sideways and you can see how high things are.
00:49:45
Speaker
But that's the kind of thing that makes us crazy. I got to cut this piece of three-quarter wood. Let me set my blade to one inch. Or you could just put it next to the blade and raise it up like a normal human being. Or draw a line and raise the blade up to the line. Leave it a little bit low and creep up on it.
00:50:06
Speaker
That noise is all the woodpecker fans leave in the room. Woodpecker is like the wood web of 2021. Oh, yeah. Wood web. Oh my God. People would be shocked to see the marking tools that we use. I know.
00:50:35
Speaker
Cause most of the time it's a tape measure, believe it or not. You know, cause that's really all we really need and a, and a pencil and sharp pencil. Yeah. A couple of squares.
00:50:50
Speaker
Anyway, fall down the rabbit hole once again. What's your go-to method for making mortises? Do you use a mortiser, drill and chisel? Make a plunge cut on a table saw or something else? That's another one from one of our patrons, Wojciech. Yeah. Well, for us, you know, if we're talking like for our doors, we've been using the table saw with a dado set on a really nice dado set, by the way. Yeah.
00:51:19
Speaker
I used to have a mortar, sir. Like one of those benchtop mortisers? Yeah, wouldn't that look like a slot? No, not a slot mortar, sir. What the hell do they call those?
00:51:30
Speaker
hollow chisel mortiser. Yeah, hollow chisel mortiser. I didn't really like the accuracy of it and things like that. I felt it was a little bit too finicky. And so before I got the Domino, I wound up just using like, you know, the Forstner bit chisel routine. I found that was just as fast and not faster.
00:51:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we don't do a lot. I'm assuming he's talking about Mortis and Tenon joining, because that's what it seems like. We really don't do it because to get somebody to pay for that, it's going to eat up. Let's say somebody's budget is five thousand dollars and they want a table. Well, you start introducing Mortis and Tenon, actual Mortis and Tenon to it. Then you can't do this part and you can't do this part and this part. So people would rather have
00:52:21
Speaker
whatever they'd rather have a nicer material on the top or this one specific design element than have they don't care about the mortise and tenon basically right we have to value engineer sometimes based on budget they'd rather have the the look to be one thing and have you know either a foam mortise and tenon or you know domino joinery and no exposed joinery right
00:52:47
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, but if we were gonna do it, like let's say we're building a table and we want a stretcher to go between the legs, we'd probably use a router and a chisel or a fours and a bit and a chisel. Yeah, yeah. We're pretty good with the chisel. Yeah. Yeah, for me, I'd probably like make a template, flush trim, square off the edges. That's how I'd do it. Yeah.
00:53:13
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Let's see. What's your favorite tool? Not most used, not most important, just favorite. That's our good friend Keith from Blackthorn Concepts on Instagram. I want you to check out Keith's giveaway with Panavise Products on Instagram while you're at it.
00:53:33
Speaker
Yeah, really cool. American-made vices for like carving and stuff like that. Yeah, he showed us some of his stuff. Really impressive. We were blown away. Alabaster. Look at this carved tulip. I mean, that thing's insane. I know. And the feel of it, right? Yeah. Yeah, I'd like to get a chunk of that just to mess around with it. Yeah. Like I was saying, like make
00:53:58
Speaker
little cabinet.
Discussing Tool Purchases with Partners
00:54:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would be awesome. So he wants to know what our favorite tool is favorite in capitals. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of it, but it's this little thing called the Palini Square by Woodpeckers. No, I'm going to have to think about this one.
00:54:22
Speaker
You know, it goes back and forth. If I have a good pencil, I was just thinking that. Were you really? If I have like a really good mechanical pencil, because, and I know he said not the one you use the most, but because you use it so much,
00:54:42
Speaker
If it's, if it's operating well and it's not getting jammed up and it's like that, you just turn me on to those Pentels. That's that a motorcycle.
00:54:53
Speaker
I don't know that was a weird noise. We're the dog. And I used it a lot today for the very first time. Pentel Graphgear 500.9 millimeter. Really? That's my favorite tool. Really enjoyable. I know it sounds silly but that pencil has never let me down. I've been using that pencil for three
00:55:15
Speaker
and a half years. Yeah. Yeah. Never had a problem with it. Yeah. I have one that is I just switched over to a new one because I bought it and you actually just got me one. So now I got two extras. But just because it was new the old one was fine. Yeah. I mean when you order something small like that and you have to I don't I think I had to pay for shipping. You know it's like like five dollars or something like that. So it makes for me. You know it's like that was an Amazon then.
00:55:43
Speaker
No, I ordered directly from the, from a jet pens. Um, and, uh, you know, it makes sense to just order because those that as far as echoes, they're cheap. Yeah.
00:55:59
Speaker
they're not like I have a pen a pencil that costs five or six times that much that in in the shop for the application most used in the shop it's not as enjoyable to use as that Pentel that that rot ring
00:56:16
Speaker
is really more like when you're on a drafting table and you can roll your lead to keep it sharp and all that stuff. You have a pointer right next to you. Yeah, you know, I really enjoy working with pencil and paper.
00:56:33
Speaker
I hope I didn't steal everything from you. You got to know. No, I mean, that's awesome that we think. But yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things that. You don't even think about it, you just pull it out and use it and you don't think about it because it nothing ever goes wrong, that it just works. And, you know, with the right lead, I use the Uniball nano dia HP.
00:57:02
Speaker
You got to use good lead. That's the other thing. You can't use cheap lead Japanese lead You know 90% of the writing on that thing is in Japanese Yeah, the Pentels are made in Japan. Yeah people didn't know Big big brand letter and it's you got to use good lead and it's not even expensive. It's again you get like three
00:57:26
Speaker
three things of it. I mean, I have enough lead that I bought years ago to last until the apocalypse. And I give to people, I'm like, you never tried this? I'm like, take a whole, you know, there's whatever, 25 pieces in there or something. I mean, go through, if I go through a piece of lead a week, I think that's a lot. I don't, there's no way I go through that. No, no. And we use other pencils for different things, but for our everyday
00:57:55
Speaker
Sometimes I come in early get that woodpecker I just draw a line every sixteenth of an inch a whole sheet of plywood Yeah 96 inch lines just parallel perfectly parallel. Oh god Yeah
00:58:09
Speaker
some people like I even like a thicker leaded pencil you know like we had the Pico we tried the Pico for me and that's great for marking out things like rough lumber and you know colored colored leads and things like that I had that 1.3 millimeter mm-hmm that I used it as a pry bar and broke the front of it off I forget what the hell I was prying on
00:58:35
Speaker
trying to open a paint can or something inside a hole. And I was like, I'll just take this out. And yeah, I snapped the whole thing off. I wonder, uh, I wonder what Keith's favorite tool is. He's probably one of those dentists drill things. Yeah. That thing was cool. Maybe a CNC. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:58:55
Speaker
This is good. We, this topic was sort of, it's sort of touched on in a way this morning, right? Yeah. How do you explain your wife, your justification of a tool and do you tell her how much it costs? That's from Nick, Nick Treyer on Instagram.
00:59:16
Speaker
I don't really get too into it. I just kind of say like, Oh, I need to get a, uh, this for, you know, for work. And then yeah, I tell her how much it is because that's, you know, should we preface? We had the same bank account. So there's no hiding it anyway. That's right. That's right. Do we preface this discussion?
00:59:39
Speaker
with, with the fact that the wives are free spenders. They, they don't know. Don't get into it. Don't get into it. You want to be culpable? No, I do not. Okay. But Jeff and I do. We're, you know, we don't spend anything except like really, uh, on our tools, everything, but we do feel
00:59:59
Speaker
We do feel somewhat a twinge of guilt if we have to buy something.
Beginner Advice for Finish Carpentry
01:00:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we're just saying that, you know, our spouse is that we have skill. Yeah. They have less guilt than that. Um, and, uh, sometimes the only time I really felt a little bit, uh, hesitant was when I told her that the apron, the Calvary,
01:00:25
Speaker
And which was I how much was it was a 350 three? Yeah, it was about 350. I told her it was about $300 and She's like wow, I'm like It's like well, it's a lifetime tool and it's made handmade by him just a single guy down there and cat the Carolines then she understands and
01:00:49
Speaker
right. Um, but, uh, you know, you kind of tell anybody you spent $350 on an apron like, listen, that's your lunches for two weeks. They're, they're going to look at you a little sideways until you, until you own a Calavera apron.
01:01:04
Speaker
Oh, look at that. That was them calling about the appliances. Oh, cool. I'll call them back when we're done. Yeah. So we don't necessarily have to justify it, but it is no secret, as Jeff says. If the business is paying for it, then it's a secret. Yeah, or just say, hey, this is where it is. We bought a new table saw. It is, right, exactly. It is what it is. We're going to pick up a new table saw.
01:01:32
Speaker
Um, then there's, you know, they don't really have any, uh, uh, anything to do with it. But when it comes out of our personal bank accounts, they see it. Cause we vault are in the same boat where, yeah, yeah. I mean, if you've got a wife, there's no hiding, but you got some secret bank account, then don't ask any permission. No, we're not in that boat.
01:01:55
Speaker
no I mean you should always have any big purchase like that you should have a discussion I think that's just I agree I agree 100% I wouldn't I wouldn't even feel right to just be spending things however I want it's even just I mean unless you're living with
01:02:12
Speaker
there's always enough money in the bank, no matter how much you spend to pay all the bills, then you have to have, it's like, hey, I gotta buy this. Just so you're on the same page about how much is going in, how much is coming out, got the mortgage payments, the car payments, like, is there gonna be that much money in the account still? Has to do with respecting your spouse. Yeah, of course, we joke, but, you know. The justification is, you know, it's for work, it's gonna make money. That's right.
01:02:41
Speaker
This is a good one from one of our patrons, Nick. Here we go. Nick Duvall on Instagram. Nick Seed Duvall on Instagram. Sorry. I am a new homeowner. Congratulations. And my house came pretty bare bones as far as trim goes. I.e. no crown, pretty crappy baseboard, and uncased windows and doorways. That's rough.
01:03:02
Speaker
Although I consider myself a decent handyman and an intermediate woodworker, I haven't done much in the way of finished carpentry. As someone who has a blank canvas to learn on, where should I begin? What skills are essential for a finished carpenter to know, and where can I learn them within my own house? Last but not least, how many woodpeckers measuring devices will I need? Thanks, keep up the pod.
01:03:24
Speaker
I hate to break it to you, Nick. You're going to have to refinance the house to get the amount of woodpeckers it's going to take to trim out your house. This is right in your wheelhouse. Yeah. Yeah. If you haven't been listening for a long time and you don't know that, you know, where I cut my teeth was as a finished carpenter.
01:03:43
Speaker
Basically, I got thrown in. A lot of guys start out with framing and stuff like that and then work their way up to finish carpentry, but that's where I started and went from the new guy to the lead finish carpenter in a very short amount of time.
01:04:02
Speaker
driven by fear of being found out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the truth. That's absolute truth. Um, so I'd say, you know, the first thing that pops into my mind in terms of skills is coping. You gotta learn how to cope. Um, resources.
01:04:23
Speaker
Look up and watch every single Gary Katz video on YouTube, KATZ. This is carpentry.com. That's his website. He's got articles out the ass. He's been around for, you know, he's, I guess, semi-retired now. Been around forever.
01:04:41
Speaker
Just workflow in terms of moving. I mean, I always I tape in my left pencil in my right. I'm always measuring towards my right side. So, you know, tape goes out to the right and I measure mark. So the work is always moving across the saw in the same direction, making cut lists and
01:05:05
Speaker
I mean, it's not going to just be perfect on the first go. It's a lot of practical applications, so it doesn't matter how much research and stuff you do, you still have to do it a bunch of times to get good at it. But preparing yourself with that information is definitely going to help.
01:05:21
Speaker
Yeah. And I'll add to what you're saying is it's the development of these positive habits. So you're not going to have to break any bad habits as you go on the whole thing about, you know, laying your work out, measuring, holding your tools. All these things are building blocks that you won't have to unlearn. Yeah.
01:05:50
Speaker
I'd say start out with baseboard and it's kind of hard because you have to case things before you can do the base. I guess you're going to have to start out with casing.
01:06:05
Speaker
Now, the hardest part about casing is the fact that your jam may be proud of the sheet rock, or the sheet rock may be proud of the jam, and you're gonna have to roll miters and stuff. So, I'd say focus on that if you can go around and case, you know, do the insides of the closets first, and then, you know, the closets inside the rooms, and then the inside of the room, and then the outside of the room. So, do the most prominent ones last.
01:06:32
Speaker
and, you know, practice on the inconspicuous spots first. But yeah, you know, learn how to how to cut properly on a miter saw, let the saw cut and don't, you know, be pulling it one way or another. Get a good saw, too. Yeah. What else?
01:06:56
Speaker
should you learn how to cope yeah well that's yeah once you get in once you're done with the casing but i think start with the casing because then then you can go and do the baseboard and cope so the way i do it i go i measure the whole room i make a cut list and i have uh in the center is the measurement
01:07:14
Speaker
On the left is what's on the left side of the piece, on the right is what's on the right side of the piece. So it might say B, 29 and a quarter, C. And I put a line through my C. I don't know why, but, so I know it's a cope. B is butt, C is cope. So if your, if your baseboard is able to butt into your casing, which it should, shouldn't be thicker than your casing, then you have a butt, it's 29 and a quarter to the long point of the cope. And that's how I make my cut list. So you measure,
01:07:44
Speaker
measure around, and then when you install, you go opposite. So my cope is always on the right side of my piece, just because, I mean, this is talking about doing it, trying to do it as efficiently as possible. You know, people will argue that when you walk into a room, the cope should all be, you know, perpendicular to your line of sight so you don't see them. Well, if your cope is good, you shouldn't see the cope anyway.
01:08:11
Speaker
And maybe I'm getting a little too in depth and technical, but, um, and feel free to reach out with any specific questions. But yeah, I mean, I think casing and coping baseboard are fundamentals that if you start there and then you can do Wayne's coding and crown molding crown molding is just baseboard, but a little more complicated. It's just cut it upside down and backwards, basically.
Project Metaphor: Eating Cake
01:08:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:35
Speaker
Tell them the name of the videos again. Gary Katz, G-A-R-Y-K-A-T-Z. This is carpentry.com is his website. There's articles on there, but there's a bunch of videos on YouTube. He's got DVD sets and stuff. Yeah. I forget what they're called, but.
01:08:53
Speaker
Spencer Lewis insider carpentry Who else there's a guy finished carpentry TV or something I think he's a Canadian guy I'm not a big fan of him, but I know he comes recommended from a lot of people he I Think maybe he's gotten better when I first saw him years and years ago. I think maybe he was a little bit hacky, but who else I
01:09:22
Speaker
If you reach out, I'll try and think of some specifics. Yeah, because you're really good at this. I love doing finished carpentry. My knees and stuff don't like it, but... Yeah.
01:09:34
Speaker
It's good, I love getting into the zone and just banging shit out. That's like today was so frustrating for me because trying to edge band these, first you were marking on cutting, we knocked it out. We cut all these, the whole entire job was cut up in two hours. And then you just hit this wall where something that's supposed to be simple turns into not being simple at all and being the complete opposite of what it should have been. And that's the most frustrating thing.
01:10:03
Speaker
And the key to finished carpentry is making sure that you're always running as smooth as possible and as accurate. It's supposed to just be thoughtless. It's like robot word. Yeah. But it looks like, you know. Well, systems. Yeah. You have systems. Just even like where you put your material.
01:10:24
Speaker
Do you put your material behind the saw? No, because then it's got to come up over top. You know, if you put it behind you, which way is it facing? Is the outside of the casing away from you and the inside? You got to think about all these things.
01:10:38
Speaker
Yeah, that's stuff you learn or somebody teaches you. Yeah. Well, you learn it the hard way by having to make 12 moves instead of three. I'd say here's a tip for casing. I don't measure my legs. I, I mark them. So I'll go, if you have a 16, you don't have to cut them in half, but cut them, you know, oversized, long.
01:10:59
Speaker
put the cut side down so you you cut cut whatever it is seven seven foot something depends on how wide the casing is you cut two legs put the cut side down put them next to the door then you mark your reveals three sixteenths quarter-inch whatever
01:11:16
Speaker
Hold the piece up. Mark the reveal. And then you go back to the saw. You put both pieces on like this. Saw in the middle. You cut this one. You swing your saw. You cut the other one. You bring them back. They go right up. You didn't. I thought I measured seventy five and three quarter, but it was seventy five and three six. There's no confusion. You're just cutting to align. Yeah. Then you install those. Then you measure for the head. You make a cut list. You cut them. You go back. I mean. I guess maybe it sounds simple, but
01:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, you've done it a lot. It could be overwhelming to a novice, but familiarize them yourself with the videos and the processes and things like that. And you're going to have to run into a problem and then figure out how to solve the problem. You can't learn all these things beforehand. So you're going to case a door and the heels or whatever, the inside corner is going to be open. You're going to say, what the hell? I cut at 45.
01:12:15
Speaker
You're gonna have to learn how to fix that what's going on with the wall and the jam and how it's affecting these things so yeah Just don't expect it to be perfect on the first go yeah, and I would say try and
01:12:35
Speaker
Again, try and shoot for the best you can and not accept too many. Well, I'm going to fill that with caulk, you know, that sort of thing, because then you're going to have to spend hours upon hours going back, trying to massage all these defects. Then, yeah, you're just going to be dissatisfied. Right. You know how it came out. That that probably would have made a good question of the week. Yeah. But this one, the one down there is pretty good.
01:13:03
Speaker
I'm talking about question of the week this next question from Justin De Palma on Instagram. He's down in South Jersey right now spraying in this heat. Oh God bless you Justin. Justin wants to know is it better to eat the whole cake in one sitting or a slice a day till it's gone?
01:13:23
Speaker
I don't know what kind of metaphor this is supposed to be. I'm going to take it literally. Me too. This is how we operate. We are both so obsessed with the idea of eating a whole cake. That was all we thought of. To me, I say just eat it all in one shot. Because it's all the same. It's all in and out. So it doesn't matter if you eat the whole thing now. It's the same thing.
01:13:49
Speaker
If we're talking about like caloric intake, yeah, so you eat a whole cake. Let's say that's 10,000 calories and Then you know, you're at a 500 calorie deficit for the day. That's 500 today minus 500 tomorrow and you're at plus 10 Well, it's gonna it's the same thing. Yeah, so if you want to eat the whole thing I say eat it I I almost ran into this about two weeks ago and
01:14:17
Speaker
Was that the head for married Mary Beth? Well, so right after Mary Beth brings over a homemade cake. My wife was at Whole Foods and she goes, I know you said you didn't want to eat so much cake. So I got a cake. So I bought this cake because that's like my wife. I say, give me bread or buns.
01:14:40
Speaker
I got your bread and buns. I'm like, you know, I'm going to eat them both. Right. You know, I have no self control. So she brought home this bakery fresh strawberry shortcake with like fresh real whipped cream and super sweet strawberries. So I said, all right, I'll try a slice, you know, like a little taste kind of slice. No such thing.
01:15:08
Speaker
Oh my God. Just cut me a quarter of the cake. The whole cake was gone by the next day.
01:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, like if there's a cake around and I don't eat cake, but if I am eating cake, which happens, like it's going to be an obscene amount. Yeah. Because I just can't. It's like a drug. Yeah, I have a little bit. It's, you know, and then that's how that's where mine goes. I was like, oh, fuck it. I'll just eat. Yeah. What's another piece? I have one. What's two?
01:15:40
Speaker
My wife's usually says with some sort of consternation, you always have room for dessert, don't you? Cause you like have the dinner that she prepared. I'm like, no, no, I'm full. I'm full.
Voodoo Ranger & Global Beer Journeys
01:15:52
Speaker
And then, you know, so catch me. Oh man. I only eat dinner just to get to the dessert. Yeah. Some, uh, some keto ice cream on, uh,
01:16:09
Speaker
Was that Saturday? What makes it keto? Um, there's no sugar.
01:16:14
Speaker
And, uh, you know, like, what was this? It was like a cookie dough kind of chocolate. It was like chocolate and caramel flavored ice cream with cookie dough. So there's no, it's almond flour. Okay. Keto has dairy though. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think like if you're really strict, there's, you try and stay away from the dairy, but cause dairy is, is higher in carbs than some other stuff. Oh yeah.
01:16:45
Speaker
All right, so that's going to wrap it up for this week as far as the regular questions. Yeah, so if you've been listening for the last couple of weeks, we've been taking one question from the podcast, and we're doing that in the Patreon show. We're calling it the Question of the Week. And this week's Question of the Week is coming from Kevin Stelzer Furniture on Instagram. And we thought this was a good one to elaborate on, so we'll spend, you know, a half hour or so on this question itself.
01:17:12
Speaker
Have you guys ever run into a situation where in the middle of a project the scope of work dramatically increases while somehow the timeline simultaneously decreases and no one gets back to you about budget changes or the need for a longer timeline? I found myself getting totally screwed on the interior finish of a large new house recently.
01:17:32
Speaker
I'm a finished carpenter and the last house I did got way out of hand and my timeline got slashed four weeks on a 5,000 square foot house with custom beams, built-ins and trim work galore. I wanted to give the client the best product so I pushed forward all the while. The builder has been dicey about payments and brutal on giving time needed. This led to six weeks of 18 hour days just to get it done on the unmerciful timeline.
01:17:56
Speaker
That is unmarciful. Yeah, long question, but have you guys ever been in this situation? If so, how did you, or how would you have, how did you, or how would you have handled it? I'm still waiting to get paid, so I'm guessing I'll end up getting screwed and had a bad six weeks. Love the pod. I'm Kevin.
01:18:14
Speaker
God, man, you know, I hate hearing stories like that because, you know, and not to get too sappy about it, but Kevin's like one of our brothers in arms. You know, this is, this is what happens out there. Yeah. Fellow craftsmen. My God. Um, that's never happened to me. I'm happy to say,
01:18:41
Speaker
Yeah. But we'll we'll get into that on the Patreon show. What'd you think of the beer? It's gone. I liked it. It was good. Yeah. It went down pretty easy. Yeah. 7.5 percent. Doesn't taste like it. You know, sometimes beers get boozy up at that percentage, but definitely juicy, tropical. It was good.
01:19:02
Speaker
And, you know, this is like our one beer of the week, usually, you know, unless there's a party we go to or something like that. And we're not big drinkers. So the other day, Mike Rio came over and my wife stopped on her own to get because she was out. So she comes home with a six pack of beer and she bought a six pack of Bex. And I didn't really like it.
01:19:29
Speaker
yeah it's like a pill like a specs German I think it is yeah kind of I thought it was a Pilsner for some reason but I could taste it in my in my mind I didn't really like it yeah it had like a weird it's kind of just like a you know just like and we've been drinking all these beers and except for like the the goofy ones where we knew would be hit and miss yeah
01:19:51
Speaker
There hasn't been really a bad beer. No, I mean, it's like food. You might not like the style or something, but it's still if you go to a place where the person cares about what, you know, it's going to be good. You just, you know, maybe you're not a big fan of pork chops. And I was really surprised that I felt that way about it. Yeah, Bex is kind of just like, you know, like, I don't think in Europe they're drinking Bex.
01:20:17
Speaker
They're making it, but they're sending it all here. That's right.
Story of Electrician Yang
01:20:20
Speaker
Used to work with an electrician. This guy was named Yang, Vietnamese guy, like was a refugee as a child from Vietnam. And he used to drink Bex. Like you'd show up the next day. Electricians are always the guys that work like at night. You show up and the dumpster had like like 13 empty Bex bottles. Oh God. Oh God, dude.
Local vs. Export Quality Products
01:20:42
Speaker
talking about like the European export kind of thing. Um, I remember when I was in Italy and you know, they, they have the, the famous regional products like Parma ham. Yeah. And they were telling me the best stuff never ever leaves the region, let alone the country. You know, it's all spoken for. It's like, yeah, if this needs to be designated DOCG, it means that there's enough of it to go around.
01:21:14
Speaker
So the backs is all for export. All the good stuff is... That's like French wine. You have all these little villages and stuff where...
01:21:25
Speaker
It's been a long time, but you have like the premier crew, the grand crew. There's all these different levels and it's like by size of the vineyard. And you have all these tiny little vineyards where you're getting wine that tastes just as good, if not better than wine that costs, whatever, hundreds of dollars a bottle, but it never leaves the village because the people that live there are the ones that are drinking it. And it doesn't, you know, it costs nothing.
01:21:50
Speaker
Right, right.
Acknowledgement of Gold Tier Patrons
01:21:52
Speaker
Yeah, good, good little bit of info there. So I want to thank Jerry Greenen, David Murphy, Manny Sirianni, Dustin Fair, Adam Pothast, David Shoemaker, and Colin Lye. Thanks guys, our gold tier patrons. And we'll
Closing Remarks
01:22:11
Speaker
see you next week for episode 44. Yeah, thanks a lot for hanging out with us.
01:22:33
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a chain