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Episode 7: Starrcade '89
28 Plays6 years ago
WCW gets all experimental on us as Starrcade '89 hosts tag and singles tournaments! It's a Luger selling extravaganza! Can Flair and Sting's friendship survive their competition? Who will win when the Road Warriors and the Steiner Brothers face off in a dream match? And what unexpected wrestler reminded us of Ricky Steamboat? For all this and more, let's go to the ring!
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Transcript
Spicy Pho Preferences
00:00:00
Speaker
I had a, you remember a pho? Or the Vietnamese soup? Yeah. Or pho? The one that you turn angry red by spooning tons and tons of hot stuff into it. Yeah, well it makes it delicious. It does, yeah. We have one here that's in Asia, it's double A Asian fusion and they have a meatball pho. They just put meat, like Italian meatballs. It's actually called double A.
00:00:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's A.A. Asian Fusion. So it's Arne Anderson's Asian Fusion restaurant?
00:01:02
Speaker
Hello
Introduction to 'Let's Go to the Ring' Podcast
00:01:03
Speaker
everyone, and welcome to Let's Go to the Ring, where we take a look at the good old days and not so good old days of World Championship Wrestling, series by series. I'm your host, Bob Moore, and I'm joined by a man who'll be portraying four different masked podcasters tonight, Alec Bridget. I'm a man of mystery. You are many men of mystery. And the towering titan of triliteration, John Mullins.
00:01:28
Speaker
I only knew what that meant. How's it going today, guys? Good, good. Pretty good.
Starcade 89 Overview and Cultural Controversy
00:01:36
Speaker
Well, today, we're going to be taking a look at Starcade 89, Future Shock. Starcade 89, Future Shock, was broadcast on December 13th, 1989, from the Omni in Atlanta, Georgia, in front of 6,000 people. 5,200 paid.
00:01:55
Speaker
Another 150,000 people tuned in by pay-per-view. Now, this is a bit of an unusual show. Rather than the usual collection of storylines and title matches, Starrcade 89 is focused on two Iron Man tournaments, one for tag teams and one for singles wrestlers. The participants in the singles tournament are Rick Flair, Sting, Lex Luger, and The Great Muta.
00:02:22
Speaker
The participants in the tag team tournament are the Legion of Doom, the Road Warriors, the Team of Doom, Ron Simmons and Butch Reed, the Steiner Brothers, and the new Wild Samoans. Now, I want to take a moment here to discuss that last team for a moment.
00:02:41
Speaker
The new Wild Samoans are the team of Salofa Fatou Jr. going by Fatou, who will later become Rikishi in the WWF, and Samuel Noi Fatou going by the Samoan Savage. I'm going to call the latter Sam, because calling someone a Samoan Savage really makes me uncomfortable. I can see that.
00:03:02
Speaker
I'll also
Wrestling Stereotypes and Representation
00:03:03
Speaker
note that I'm much more fond of another name this team goes by, the Samoan SWAT team. I think that's a much better name. So about the team. It's fine, it's absolutely fine if you're making a team to truthfully, honestly honor the cultural heritage of team members. It's not okay if you're making a team to portray their cultural heritage as inferior. And on this show, some things lean towards the latter.
00:03:31
Speaker
We get comments that lean into savage stereotypes of lack of intellect or inability to control yourself in situations requiring discipline. Some could be sold as talking about the individual people, but others are more clearly directed at the overall race or culture. It's a real mark against the commentary tonight.
00:03:50
Speaker
and the team has a pre-match ceremony which is fine and even kinda neat until you realize that all that's meant to do is get the crowd to boo them because, you know, that's different. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.
00:04:04
Speaker
There's other things on this and other shows, but the point is, the whole gimmick of this team appears to be they're Samoan, and that makes them different, so boo them. That's one of the bad things that wrestling does sometimes. There's many gimmicks over the years built on just that idea, people from a culture other than that of the primary viewing audience being bad or portrayed as stereotypes. The great Muta suffers somewhat from it as well on this show, though he does seem to have more to his character than just being from Japan. Yeah.
00:04:32
Speaker
but it's something that wrestling needs to permanently overcome. There has been progress. The Rock is part Samoan, but his gimmick is about much, much more, and if he's taken as good or bad is because of who he is personally, not anything about his cultural heritage.
00:04:48
Speaker
Roman Reigns, similarly, is of Samoan heritage, but that isn't the sum total of his gimmick. Both acknowledged and honored their heritage, but their characters were about who they were personally. Thus, making them face or heal, good or bad, is about what they personally do, their personal attitude, not their race or culture. The point is, you can involve culture, but don't mock it. And characters should be more than just their heritage. Wrestling is making progress
Tournament Storylines and Rivalries
00:05:13
Speaker
on this sort of thing, but this is still a gimmick type that crops up time and again.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely an issue watching older shows where they do that. I think, like I said, Muda's not as bad as Muda on that. There's one point I noticed rewatching one of the matches where they refer to this idea that Muda won't give up because of his Japanese pride. Yeah. Like, I feel like if you just said pride, that'd be fine. Exactly. What's civic about Japanese pride? I don't know.
00:05:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's just comments that you really shouldn't make. Yeah, the general generalization of, you know, right tropes and stereotypes and perpetuating things that don't really
00:05:49
Speaker
necessarily come from that character, but are just attributed to them are, you know, cause it's, it's not low hanging fruit. It just shouldn't be fruit, but you know, it's just something that, you know, perhaps they know that some of the audience has or maybe a little bit xenophobic or don't fully understand them and they're supposed to be not a face. And so they just play into it. Uh, maybe a little bit too much. It's something that's going to crop up from time to time. And I just felt like we needed to kind of say our piece on it.
00:06:21
Speaker
Now normally we do some coverage of the storylines for each match before discussing that match, but this time the show is all about a tournament, so the stories going in are more about the tournaments as a whole rather than any individual match. So, Al, why don't you go ahead and set the scene for the show?
00:06:39
Speaker
So the tag team has shifted a lot since the last show. As Bob noted, there is a couple of teams we haven't seen before at all, and one that we almost saw half of before. So Scott Steiner is the first one who comes in, joins Brother Brick, once they stop making a singles wrestler.
00:06:54
Speaker
they come into a strong early in that ninety nine they both are very quickly towards trying to win the tag titles but things keep happening against them this point the free birds have them they have to valet which is uh... one of them turns on them that's that's woman and she for some reasons is mad and not really clear why she's mad at them because he turned on them at night in the way around he is evil i guess so she vows heading to halloween havoc show work will cover yet
00:07:23
Speaker
that she's going to bring their doom to them. So she introduces doom that way. I will note that the Stylers actually won the tag titles on November. So less than barely a month before the show. Which is interesting because you think you'd save that for Starrcade, but they have weird tournaments so we can't do that. Yeah. The whole thing about doom is they do it at Halloween Havoc and they beat the Stylers brothers, which is a big get for them. And that's before they win the title, so it's not a title match. Right.
00:07:51
Speaker
And so they are evil mask wrestlers. So you can probably guess how they win. Twin magic, of course. A little of that, but the extra added bonus. Oh, are they doing the headbutt? Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah, they put the metal in their mask and went that way. Yep. I put a place for the sigh in the notes as well. That's for you. It's the gimmick that won't go away.
00:08:17
Speaker
yes true uh... the road warriors obviously we know them for previous shows they're still here since the last show they lost a tag titles they were holding during that one in very scary fashion the team actually beat them also loses it that house not to them i do is lose them really also screw fashion so i guess that kind of balances out karma
00:08:40
Speaker
Ever since then, they've been feeding with a new team who came in called The Skyscrapers to dance by Vincent Vicious. That's been a few going through Holly and Havoc and leading into this show.
00:08:50
Speaker
Unfortunately on their match on the Clash of Champions, I remember before this, they not fully break, thankfully, but they severely bruise one of Savicious' ribs.
Tag Teams and Undefeated Streaks
00:09:01
Speaker
Because that's the kind of match they have, they just hit each other really hard and lie to their round. So the skyscrapers, despite being put in the video package, literally the first thing you see in the video package, are not on the show.
00:09:14
Speaker
I think they were really hoping that they'd be okay to do it. They say in kayfabe anyways that the day of they checked and they verify he's not ready. Yeah. So I don't know how much time they really knew for sure they wanted to be in there, but it's a little weird. The someone's watch team, as Bob talked about, they were brought in from the AWA. One half of the rhythm and express abruptly left before the blow-off match. So suddenly poor Polly Dangerously is left with half of a tag team.
00:09:40
Speaker
And no offense, but the half left was Randy Rose, who was okay, but nothing groundbreaking, so he got us something else. Ravishing Randy Rose. Excuse me, yes. They came in shortly after that fuse. They'd been hanging around for six state months at this point, but they haven't really done a whole lot. There's a war game that they're in that's not that notable in the long term.
00:10:03
Speaker
on the rest of the title never won titles so they really are a last-minute who's still left around here in some reason we can't call the vina express you know they do work here right now yeah in the show their placement so it's nothing against them is just that's where they were at the car to that point and they looked out by being backstage i guess when they needed so then we have the singles we have one new face in the group and this time it's painted and yes i'll be more than sting
00:10:33
Speaker
Rick Flair is naturally world champion, but at this point he is now actually a face. He turned face around the year while feeding with Terry Funk, who, strange enough, is on commentary at this point. I think because of an injury he had after that feud. So Flair and the remnants of the horsemen, which at this point is Arne Anderson and Ollie Anderson, they are together in their faces, and they're infinity with the J-Text Corporation, which is still a really stupid name just for the record.
00:11:01
Speaker
essentially essentially a mix of western bad guys and the great nudah brought him to your heart Lex Luger is here and he is now the u.s champion he's at a very interesting year of winning losing and then regained the title so he's been very busy as part of this build up to win the title he turned heel so he's now a bad guy again so I was keeping track he was a bad guy who debuted he's a face last year and I was a bad guy again yeah you know
00:11:27
Speaker
Just kind of big showing it a bit. Yeah. His name is only like one sound away from Lex Luthor. Yeah. It's kind of doomed to evil then, isn't it?
00:11:37
Speaker
should also note that he turned heel against Ricky Steamboat, who is unfortunately not on this show, as cool as it'd be. Nothing gets nudged, but having Steamboat as a fourth person wouldn't really be cool. Fortunately, there was issues with management, apparently. Wikipedia's not super clear on that. So Steamboat briefly, he comes into the company back from WWF.
00:11:59
Speaker
I managed to win the world title in one of the shows, loses it later, and then by the next Star Gate he's gone. So we missed all of that, going with Star Gate. He has a series of legendary matches with Ric Flair, regarded as some of the best matches in wrestling history. Oh yeah. And they don't manage to get one of them on Star Gate. No. The legendary Chinatown Rumble gets one, but not us.
00:12:24
Speaker
As far as Sting goes, Sting, because they've determined they're not giving him the multiligest yet, they gave him the slightly less illustrious prize of being the World Television Champion, which he held for a while, until he lost to Tamuda in very dubious fashion. He would never actually bring it back during this feud, so Tamuda's actually the TV team becoming into this. He came in 1989, as mentioned, with the Daytech Corporation. He's been by Gary Hart, and he was teamed with Terry Funk, who's a noble clash to team up together.
00:12:53
Speaker
Or, excuse me, he's both team together, but then Derryfunk's out, so... Oh, okay. Also worth noting, GreatMuda is undefeated. I resent the end of the comp, he has not officially lost the match. And they don't count how in Havoc where he wasn't pinned. Oh, okay, yeah. He himself would not be pinned. He personally has not been pinned. Correct. Okay.
00:13:14
Speaker
Can I just mention for a moment how incredibly annoyed I was to see that Arne Anderson and Ollie Anderson are back, but are not in the tag team tournament. And I get that Ollie's partially or mostly retired at this point, but man, I would have, I would have loved to have some Anderson goodness on this show. Yeah. And honestly, it'd been great to have totally back, but there's a whole story of that. At least that, you know, they make an appearance. Yes.
00:13:44
Speaker
We get a truly wonderful video package to start that looks like it's right out of someone's low-budget Shadowrun film, with a futuristic-looking computer backdrop showing shots of the participants of tonight's tournaments. Except that, as you mentioned, it still shows the skyscrapers, Sid Vicious and Dan Spivey.
00:14:03
Speaker
Also, strangely, each tag team gets listed individually, and Sting and Luger get listed individually, but Flair and Muta have to share a screen. The National Anthem is back to start us off. It's a recorded version, but not the recorded version with the glitchy tape from viewers back at least.
00:14:26
Speaker
Our host, JR, welcomes us to the show and builds up the two tournaments, then introduces his co-host. For the singles tournament, he'll be joined by Terry Funk. And for the tag teams, he'll be joined by Jim Cornette and his amazing Santa tennis racquet. That was great.
00:14:44
Speaker
This time is when Tony Schiavone is actually over in WWF. Yes. He spends about a year over there between Mania 5 and 6, I think. I believe that is the timeline, yeah. Yeah. So he will be back in 1990.
00:14:59
Speaker
He will debatably be happy about that. Cornet breaks down the scoring system. For a pinfall or submission, you get 20 points. For a countout, you get 15 points. For a disqualification, you get 10 points. And for a draw, you get 5 points. I should clarify here, this is not an elimination tournament.
00:15:21
Speaker
This is a tournament for points. Whoever has the highest score after they have matches against each of the other opponents wins the tournament. I have to say, and I know I'm going to regret this because this scoring system means that there's 12 matches on this show rather than 6.
00:15:39
Speaker
But I really like the idea of a scored tournament rather than an elimination one. There just seem like there's more story possibilities, especially with the difference in scores between the win types. How you win can matter. A guy could get to the end with two wins and so could another guy, but if one of them won by pinfall both times and the other by disqualification both times, there's a huge difference in their score. It's a pretty neat way to run a tournament. I think they also used it in the FirePro Wrestling games. I think there's a mode in those generally that uses this idea.
00:16:11
Speaker
JR, I noticed, says that all the matches can be considered main events. That has to be a record for supposed main events on the show. We get the introduction of the various tag teams on a seriously awesome stage setup. Really a neat design with staircases to platforms for each of the teams. It ends with a nice little pyro display as Doom's oddly jazzy music starts playing. Let's go to the ring.
00:16:41
Speaker
Our first match is Doom, or the team of Doom, with Woman and Nitron, versus the Steiner brothers, Rick and Scott Steiner. Nitron, incidentally, is Tyler Maine of Sabretooth fame. Oh, he put more reveal about it later. He was also Michael Myers in the Halloween remakes. There you go. I like this match in that it's like Doom versus Wolf and Steiner's. It's like, it's got a video game reference in there.
00:17:10
Speaker
Yeah, that is perfect. That's great.
00:17:15
Speaker
Rick and Scott are the world tag team champions at this point, but this isn't for the title of course because, you know, tournament. JR and Cornet talk about the skyscrapers' replacement in the tournament by the Samoan SWAT team. Oddly, Cornet uses that name for them, while the announcer just called them the Wild Samoan, so I guess they're testing which one people like better. I think that what happened was they originally brought in the Samoan SWAT team, and at some point they decided the new Wild Samoan branding would be better. I think Cornet just doesn't care.
00:17:44
Speaker
We've watched some shows later on, like I think Capital Combat 90 they're on, which definitely we will have to do for this at some point. Don't spoil anything for John. I will not. But I know they're called Simone's SWAT team on that. Yes. So they seem to just kind of go back and forth. I'm not clear if we're supposed to know that Doom is Ron Simmons in Butch Read or not. I don't believe so. I don't think so because JR just keeps referring to them by numbers, so I'm going to do the same.
00:18:15
Speaker
Scott Steiner and Doom 1 start off pretty evenly matched until Scott counters a whip to the ropes with a leapfrog and a Steiner line. That's the Steiner's particularly vicious clothesline.
00:18:26
Speaker
Smack to the head. Scott and Rick trade off to hit big power moves on Doom 1 and Doom 2, and there's an odd spot where Doom 2 hits an atomic drop on Scott, but he no-sells and hits one on Doom 2, who doesn't no-sell, but kind of stands there reeling two inches away from his corner but doesn't even try to reach out for a tag.
00:18:46
Speaker
JR notes that people are still arriving for the show, which is why there's a LOT of empty seats. Cornette jokes that they're all out buying Midnight Express merchandise in the lobby. Pretty good way to cover it.
00:18:59
Speaker
Scott and Rick continue to dominate and mix in some amateur wrestling, but Doom 1 dodges Scott's charging clothesline and Scott spills out of the ring. Nitron takes the opportunity to land some punches and Scott climbs back in, only to eat a massive power slam from Doom 1. Really impressive one. We get the power slam a few times tonight, but I think this one was the best one, honestly. It's a pretty good one, yeah, yeah.
00:19:22
Speaker
Doom 1 and 2 team up to beat up Scott, with Nitron joining in when the ref isn't looking, and Cornet points out that Scott is taking a bad beating here, but he still has two more matches to wrestle. Scott fights back and manages a cradle for two, but that just earns him more abuse, including some nasty stomps to the head by Doom 2, a double back body drop from both, and a big spine buster for a two and a half by Doom 1, and a further two count. Kinda nice way to sell that. Stays down that long.
00:19:52
Speaker
Doom 1 puts his feet on the ropes for a headlock, and Doom 2 puts his foot on the ropes too. I'm pretty sure that would actually, if anything, fight against whatever Doom 1 was gaining there, but I like the team aspect, so nice spot anyway. Yeah, I'm not sure how that works angle-wise. And the ref is oblivious. Oh yes, of course.
00:20:11
Speaker
Scott
Match Analysis: Doom vs. Steiners
00:20:12
Speaker
gets a leapfrog into a belly-to-belly suplex and tags Rick, who beats up both Doom guys with big punches and Steiner lines and a nice power slam. Nitron trips Rick coming off the ropes, so he goes out and hits a Steiner line on Nitron, who sells it pretty poorly. Everybody brawls outside, but Rick makes it back in just before the 10 count for the win. The Steiner brothers get 15 points for the countout victory.
00:20:37
Speaker
I'm torn on this because, I mean, the Doom matches won't spoil too much, but are not my favorite part of the show. I feel like the other pairings work better in general. But my issue with this really is that, so the Steiner's, the way this feud's gone, the Steiner's lose in a screen fashion to Doom and all in Havoc. But then when the title's after that, so they're going in as the champion.
00:20:59
Speaker
So I would expect a really strong, no yeah, dominant victory, but a clear victory as their first appearance on this show. And it's just Rick hearing the ref count and jumping back in at the last minute, winning the same way that Barry Windham won his US title match last show. And he was a heel after that.
00:21:19
Speaker
So that aside though, it's still a pretty good match. I noted that it was both teams knocked the hell out of each other. Yes. Which is definitely true. The one thing I will say with the finish is that maybe the ideas are saving this for a future rematch because they've had the one match. And even though this is a pay-per-view, maybe they're treating this as a big pay-per-view, they're saving it for a Russell Ward to play with the next show. So maybe they don't want to sign up as visually pin them before Russell Ward. We want to save that for an actual title match or something maybe.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, and that would maybe would be a stronger point had their matches gone through the matches the rest of the show gone differently, but yeah, yeah, oh It's okay. It's it's probably fine. It's just yeah that finish takes away from me because it's that's the faces Suddenly realizing they had to jump back at the ring and win in the they've been pretty strong about the show or the match rather. Oh
00:22:12
Speaker
I thought it was a great slugfest. I mean, it was all over the place, pretty chaotic. Lots of energy, which is what you want for the first match. And I think having some controversy, you know, like that there's some dirt foul play to get them out of the ring in the first place is gonna not only illustrates the whole how points can go and it makes you wonder if they're ever gonna catch up. So I think it's a good way to end it.
00:22:40
Speaker
It didn't bother me. In fact, when I was talking to Al earlier, I didn't realize it was 15 points. I was like, oh, it's 10 or something. Yeah, yeah. The countout is a decent score. It's just not as good as the pinfall or submission one.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah, you make an interesting point there now that you knew a bit more of the storyline of their previous match and then how they won the title and everything like that. So you had a little bit more reason to want the Steiners to have a clear definitive victory over Doom here. Yeah. Where John and I, I think both really only had the show storyline. Sure. So for both of us, it's a little bit neat actually to see there's all these different ways that matches can end.
00:23:23
Speaker
but there's actually a point to using those different ways on this show because you're assembling an interesting score-based storyline. So I think if you look at it purely from this show alone, then it's an interesting ending. If you look at it from the context of the wider Steiner storyline, then I can see it being dissatisfying that you want something more from it.
00:23:46
Speaker
And I think they did a good job with the point spread in that, like, I don't think there was ever a point where, like, someone was over 20 points. Like, the pinfall wouldn't have made a difference or at least tied them with at least... Yeah, they made it pretty well. Yeah. Like you guys said, this is a nice, fast-paced, hard-hitting match. Not a bad choice at all for an opener. Doom and the Steiners both felt like they had a ton of power and everything felt like it had impact. Scott put in a really good showing for himself. It's the first time we've actually seen him on, you know, for our show.
00:24:16
Speaker
and they gave him the majority of the match. Like his brother, he's powerful, but he's still quick and nimble. The Steiners both have this nice combination of raw power and amateur wrestling skills that make them a unique team for this era. There's a feeling of legitimacy about what they do here.
00:24:34
Speaker
Doom also did quite respectable work themselves as a big power team, very believable as a threat, and had some very nice double team spots. I appreciated the interference from Nitrom was nicely timed and wasn't overused.
00:24:48
Speaker
I did think the timing for Rick's slide into the ring was excellent. Oh yeah, sure. However, the camera work was not. We mostly missed him actually getting in. So yeah, overall, really nice opening match. I'm not sure that there's any other match you could have picked for the opener that would have been a better choice to get people all charged up. There's
Singles Tournament Presentation
00:25:09
Speaker
Steiner's Legion of Doom later on, obviously, but I don't think you want to open with that one. No, no. That's one you want to make people anticipate.
00:25:18
Speaker
yet out of the taxing one is probably the profit open i will say when in a tron uh... side and the time it is funny is that weird kind of look as a the tough guy and uh... cuz it's like his jacket says big tough guy like leather jacket looking thing but then he's wearing like the pension you know you're going skiing true yeah and there in the land time in courage winter but then lanta there is not skiing
00:25:48
Speaker
It's the 80s. Like, tracksuits are in and stuff like that. Name it a judging by the way Diesel looks later. We go back to the stage and they've got the side staircases draped with curtains. As the announcer introduces each wrestler for the singles competition, the curtain raises to reveal him. Which would be nice if the curtains moved a little bit faster. Anticipation. Yeah.
00:26:17
Speaker
Luger, as you mentioned, is a heel again, so he gets flashy entrance gear that's part robe, part Roman centurion armor. I really liked that, actually. I thought it looked cool. Yeah, I'm torn on that one. It's interesting. It's kind of a late 80s, very late 80s thing, but I appreciate it. It's not just a robe. He's like differentiated himself from flair now. Sure.
00:26:38
Speaker
Rick Flair, speaking of, has an awesome purple and silver robe. Like classic Flair gear there. Some sparks fall down as Flair is introduced too, which is somewhat worrisome as they didn't actually appear to be any pyro going off this time. I was wondering if the motors for racing the curtains were having a problem or something. Could be.
00:26:59
Speaker
If no one gets burned, it's in the show. It's a good thing. I think the the general stage setup tonight just looked cool. It worked well for these two intros of the the two tournaments and it just like gives you a really neat stage design. We haven't actually had a stage design to discuss at any point. These have been very basic up till now, but this is the first time they did like a showy entrance ramp that gives the show its own unique feel.
00:27:25
Speaker
Yeah. I think Lex might have not only got his armor, but the stage stuff from American Gladiators. There you go. Yeah. If they had the tennis ball cannon in the middle, that would be even better. Oh yeah. Have that as they try and run towards the ring or something? Yeah.
00:27:44
Speaker
I will say he does take on a Roman name when he comes to WVF a few years later, so that could be connected before shadowing. I would say the closest thing we had to a stage really was that one show, I want to say 86 or 87, I forget which, where Ric Flair walks out and they have the flash paper display behind them which is like quiet work on cue.
00:28:07
Speaker
We just sort of pause to stand the eye on it trying to make my favorite look cool. And where you see it, like the flaming bits of paper raining down on the crowd. And you're like, oh my gosh, no. Yeah, I think that was 86. I think it was 86. I think so. Yeah. And Flair's hair is legit a fire hazard. Yeah. There's a lot of product in that hair.
00:28:32
Speaker
Our second match for the night is Sting versus Lex Luger in the first match for the singles tournament. Luger, as
Sting vs. Luger: Key Moments
00:28:41
Speaker
you mentioned, is United States champion. JR and Funk build up that Sting and Luger used to be friends, but no more. They note that both are going to be a huge part of pro wrestling in the 1990s. JR calls them the prototypes for the modern pro wrestler.
00:28:59
Speaker
Funk says that the both of them are going to have to show Flair that, and they'll have to show him the hard way. I liked the kind of generational storyline they kind of had going on with that. It's a nice touch. Our referee for this match is Nick Patrick making his first appearance for our show. He is one of WCW's most famous referees.
00:29:23
Speaker
He will go on to be a ref in WCW, I believe straight up through its ending. Yes. John, we've actually seen a member of Nick Patrick's family on the show before. Can you guess who? Nope. No, not even going to hazard a guess. Nope. It's our old buddy, assassin number one. Yeah. He was the cuddly one. Yes, he was. That's Nick Patrick's father. Oh, yep. Yes, that's true.
00:29:53
Speaker
The fans taunt Luger, who yells at them and tries to walk out. Sting chases him down and fights him back to the ring. JR says that if both men are counted out, no points are awarded, but
00:30:06
Speaker
wouldn't that be a draw? I guess that wouldn't be a draw, because that is a decision. The draw is when there's no decision, there's no pinfall or countout or DQ. I guess, but I mean, technically, if you simultaneously get the same decision, that would be a draw. But oh, well, is there rules their way? They both considered like disqualified. So yeah, I guess it's just draw only means the time limit draws specifically.
00:30:30
Speaker
Back in the ring, Sting gets Luger tied in the ropes. Sting dives at Luger for a crossbody, but Luger dodges, and Sting flies out over the top rope, but catches hold of the rope, whips himself up on the apron, dodges a Luger clothesline, hits one of his own, and dives into the ring onto Luger for two in an absolutely amazing spot. That was very impressive, yeah.
00:30:52
Speaker
They go outside to brawl, where Luger tries barricade smashes, but Sting counters them. Back in for some wonderful Luger selling with howls of pain as Sting grabs an armbar. Luger briefly gets out and whips Sting to the corner, but Sting smoothly hops up on the turnbuckle and comes off in a crossbody for two, then goes back to the armbar as I'm pretty sure the crowd was chanting, break it. The crowd's vicious tonight. A lot of Ivan Drago's in the crowd.
00:31:18
Speaker
Sting hits a monster drop kick with an amazing vertical leap, and Funk notes that he's definitely got the advantage. Luger finally catches him coming off the ropes and lands an inverted atomic drop, and Funk notes that he'd always said he was picking Luger for the tournament. Quick turnaround there, Mr. Funk. Luger lands hard strikes and charging kicks, and JR notes that Luger was an offensive guard in football. As Funk points out, he should have been punting. Luger taunts the crowd with a pec jiggle.
00:31:47
Speaker
A big power slam sets up the torture rack, but Sting backflips out and the trade blows. Sting goes for his crossbody again with Luger against the ropes, but sees Luger ready to dodge and stops, hitting a punch and a suplex instead. It's a great spot there, I think, as he learned from his mistake before.
00:32:04
Speaker
Luger tries to take the draw and stalls outside the ring, but Sting chases him and beats him up. They end up on the apron and Sting tries to close-line Luger in, but Luger grabs him and they spill, kind of slowly, over the ropes, with Luger landing on top and grabbing the ropes for the three count and the win.
00:32:21
Speaker
Sting calmly informs Nick Patrick that Luger used the ropes, but the match goes to Luger. Luger gets the pin for 20 points. Well, that's okay. I'm sure that Nick Patrick will learn and be a good, reliable, and entirely trustworthy referee for the rest of his time at WCW. I see no reason to question that statement. Now that you mention it, yeah.
00:32:44
Speaker
others is really no really strong match on us argue that you could open but this if you've done the single see the first but i don't know how they decide who and when coin toss coin toss supposedly they said that okay
00:33:00
Speaker
I love these coin tosses that are in wrestling or in film. They don't have to be ever documented in any way. Some of the war games do it, but they never actually see it, and they show them doing it. They never see what the coin is. And they never seem to go the faces way for some reason. I don't know why. It was nice seeing Sting in a singles match because our first singles match was Sting and Starrcade.
00:33:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right, yeah. Because he's part of the sixth man originally, which has no finish. Then he's part of the tag with Dusty Roadress, the DQ. Yeah, wow. It's definitely not Sting's actual first singles match. He's had probably 100 of them at this point from all the TV tapings. But no, it's nice, fun to get one of them this year. Yeah, that's great. And then get two more, which is also great. It's definitely clear watching Sting at this point what we'll see in him.
00:33:47
Speaker
He has a natural energy, he has a really good look, and he's very athletic. He's got his drop kick and his body catches him on the rope and does that. That's all really good. Luger for his part is obviously very athletic to get to as well.
00:34:01
Speaker
He probably has like 2% body fat at that point, who knows. He bragged about it at one point much later in his career. So I can only imagine like 14 years earlier he was probably at that like all the time. What he really brings is he really embraces being a heel, which we got a lot of sleep. We had him as a heel originally in 87.
00:34:20
Speaker
He was very, very new to wrestling at that point. He's only been in the sport less than a year. So it's really not fair to judge him by that standard. This is definitely the heel Luger we expect to see. He has terrific crowd interaction tonight. And I think the anger is legit. Yeah, a little bit, I think.
00:34:39
Speaker
There is probably some of that with him. Obviously, I would take a little issue with the finish, but I do understand your point with the earlier finish. And in this case, it's setting up a larger story that you really want to see Sting as Victor in a way, but they don't let you get that yet. And if we're going to position as a heal to sort of be braggadocious if they actually promo in the show, which they don't, really setting them up as a favor going in there. So while I wish they had a more clear finish, I fully understand why they did this one.
00:35:08
Speaker
at least with this one it is clear it is still a pinfall. It's just a pinfall that where he's you know cheating and it's a little bit of a
00:35:16
Speaker
awkward getting there. Right, right. I was cringing the whole time they were doing that awkward over the top thing. I'm like, how does Sting even think that this is going to come out all right? It was positioning and everything. I think, well, both of us were watching it for a moment. I made a kind of noise when they went over the ropes. Like, are they going to hit their heads? But they lived. Yeah.
00:35:42
Speaker
But it's a really good match. I don't like screen finishes, but this one's acceptable because I understand the story of it. A lot of great athleticism. I love Sting's outfit, the Sting million or whatever they want to call it, or the Scorpamillion or whatever you want to call it. I like the multiple colors. It kind of fits his style.
Storytelling in Wrestling Matches
00:36:04
Speaker
He adapts to what's going on. He might have a mistake here and there.
00:36:07
Speaker
Like you said, he warms up and he won't fall for the same trick twice. I think it gives a little bit of additional drive to the match because you see that pattern set up and you're like, okay, is he going to fall for it?
00:36:23
Speaker
He doesn't. How's he going to get out of it? I think that it sets good expectations. The fact that Luger is really good in his heal role and being the first match of the night, I think it always plays up to, you know, you want to build up a character, you need to give them some adversity right off the bat.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think it works really well to have Luger take the first win in this tournament and to have Sting start out, like you said, with some adversity that's going to end up giving you something to root for as the show goes on. You want the crowd really charged up for Sting, so I think giving him that initial loss is pretty nice.
00:37:05
Speaker
I mean, alternatively, you know, like it's like, is he going to just automatically lose the second match if he wins the first, just so that there is that tension here with the point system again, you know, they're doing a really good job of building that systemic excitement. Yeah, that works. Yeah, another really fun match here. There's a lot of striking and not a ton of move variety from these two in this match, but there were some really great ideas for spots.
00:37:34
Speaker
The overall story of the match felt really solid and I really liked Luger's fine, I'll take the draw strategy that he gets to at the end of the match. Sting's agility continues to impress and he pulled off some amazing moves here. And Luger, like you were saying, is a very effective foil and does a great job of riling up the crowd. The ending, like we said, I feel like it didn't quite go right. I think they thought that they could spill over the ropes a little smoother than that, but
00:38:02
Speaker
they got a little bit muddled in just how to do it to get Luger land on top. Hardly a match runner, it still works out, and they managed to make it look like they were legitimately struggling with each other, but it did stick out with the rest of it all being really smooth for the rest of the match.
00:38:17
Speaker
I will know this is the first match of the show where the timing is definitely suspect as far as living 15-minute time limits. True. Yeah. So, yeah, that's all the story. You have to do it in 15 minutes or it's a draw. They build up when they go to the final spot saying that 30 seconds left. It's going to make this atmosphere of it's been quick or they're going to know what's going to happen. And then you look at the actual match time. Fisher listed, it's about 12 minutes.
00:38:46
Speaker
uh well it's wrestling what are you gonna do yeah it's just funny when the whole thing is built around this timeline you have to be in this black amount of space and you're like oh uh now it's between it yeah maybe they meant to say 300 seconds you know it's still wrong but it's closer it's accurate yeah yeah true
Legion of Doom vs. Team of Doom Recap
00:39:09
Speaker
Our third match is the Team of Doom, with Woman and Nitron, versus the Legion of Doom, the Road Warriors, with Precious Paul Ellering. JR points out that the matches were determined by random draw, and Doom were quite unlucky. Cornet says he wouldn't call it luck, then calls it bad luck. Huh?
00:39:28
Speaker
Animal starts with one member of Doom. JR calls it Doom II, but Cornet says whichever one starts should be Doom I, because if you start a match against Road Warrior Animal, you've got guts and you have to be number one. We'll go with that then. Animal starts with Doom I, and they shove each other around before Animal hits a big drop kick, tag to Hawk, and he and Doom I face off with shoulder blocks where neither move until Hawk switches to a clothesline to take Doom I down.
00:39:55
Speaker
We get a great shot of women yelling, what is happening? In frustration. The camera misses a tag, which isn't great when you're dealing with masked wrestlers. So thanks for that.
00:40:08
Speaker
Hawk and Doom II repeat the shoulder block spot, but end it with a Hawk power slam this time, and Hawk tags back to Animal, but Doom II fights back and briefly takes control. Animal reverses a whip into a big boot and gets a tag to Hawk, who hits a beautiful high angle drop kick, but misses a charge and hits the post shoulder first.
00:40:28
Speaker
Cornette, discussing a pack of wrestling writers, says that JR mentioned that one of them was the leader, but he didn't know anyone led a pack of angry wolves. I'm guessing Mr. Cornette hasn't studied much about wolf packs. I mean, wolf packs won't be important in WCW, so it's okay.
00:40:46
Speaker
The team of Doom dominates Hawk with stomps, punches, and a few double teams alongside big power moves. There's a nice power slam in there again, and a really great diving clothesline. Woman gets involved too, holding onto Doom II's feet when he puts him on the ropes for a headlock for leverage. They get a lot of two counts, some very close, but they can't keep Hawk down. Hawk finally fights back, but Doom I cuts him off and attempts a body slam, only for Hawk to come down on top and tag Animal.
00:41:13
Speaker
Animal in for a flying shoulder block, then a massive power slam. Everyone in in brawling, and a Doom member tries to get Animal for a pile driver, but Hawk dives off the top rope for a closed line, and Animal gets the 3 count for the win in 20 points. Woman is not pleased.
00:41:29
Speaker
I thought it was pretty good. I feel like I liked the first tag much better with Doom, with Siners and them. Nothing really goes wrong here. The closing that really arguably goes wrong is that one Hawk Dropkick, while really impressive on the height, does seem to barely connect with that other guy. He nearly clears his head entirely, doesn't he? Yeah. He's aiming for El De Gante, and then you just thought of somebody else.
00:41:54
Speaker
But no, nothing was wrong in this match. But no, I didn't feel like there was a lot of spark between them. Some team just sort of gel really well together, especially what it was supposed to do later, and I just thought before, but there's nothing bad, but there's nothing special with this one for me. It's decent in what I do, they don't have a lot of story to it, it's just, we're both really strong guys, knights of the round. I will say, I would be repetitive. I take it to the finish, but not for the same reason I normally do.
00:42:20
Speaker
I take it you should have finished a little bit because Legion Doom at this point, our face is just too clear. Despite the fact that they tried to blind Dusty Rhodes, listen a year ago, they're good guys again because wrestling. He got better. Yeah. And you got a new job, yes.
00:42:39
Speaker
and a lovely set of polka dots. Oh yeah. So, they're sort of playing good guys here. They're strong, down to good guys. And they win by one guy jumping and hitting a guy while he's not looking, and the other guy pinning him. Which feels like if that was reversed and doomed it, he'd be like, man, those evil doom, they snuck up on them. I agree with you, except for the part about, well, he's not looking, because he is clearly looking at him the whole time. But in storyline, he's supposed to not see him coming.
00:43:05
Speaker
no grant you that uh... otherwise it's a good thing but in bad kind of the middle for me and another parent in spark as much for me
00:43:15
Speaker
What you said earlier, they were doomed to have any charisma together on both sides. The thing about this match that stood out to me, there was a lot of groundwork, a lot of stalls, a lot of holds. Yes, she had high-flying stuff from Hawk and big powerful, very smooth suplexes, but I'd noticed that they spent a lot of time just crawling around the mat.
00:43:38
Speaker
You know, and I don't know if that's just like to save some strength or just drag out the match or everything, but it wasn't as energetic as all the ones before. I mean, yes, there was big moves, but it just was spaced out. I didn't think it amped up, even though I love Legion of Doom. And I actually kind of like the athleticism of other Doom. That's not confusing at all, is it?
00:44:04
Speaker
No, no, I didn't know if they're gonna play like on something like they're the newspapers, you know They're gonna you know, take take over their title their name and everything and demolish them I don't know if it's actually even that well thought-out given that they can't give woman a name and
00:44:22
Speaker
I don't know if it's insulting or if it's empowering or what, but it's just odd. It's like they wrote out, we'll give her a name, and it's just as woman says this, and they've just never changed it. They're just like... Yeah, basically. From the first draft of the screenplay, they never filled in the character name. No, but I mean, she's a good actress. She does a good job in her role.
00:44:47
Speaker
You know, it wasn't anything special for me. And that's hard for me to say for Legion of Doom match. Compared to the previous match, it might be that they haven't worked together as much. Because as we noted, the signers fought Doom at least once in a big review. But it probably meant they did several house shows in the circuit building up and probably for TV tapings of some form.
00:45:08
Speaker
Whereas I don't know if Legion of Doom actually wrestled Doom directly at all before. It's probably going to be at some point, but not that many times. So it could be they just don't have, like, spirit or whatever, so they would stop and, you know, set up whatever next spot they want to do is. Say what they want to do next. Yeah. Kind of disguise it that way, yeah. The match was slow except for the very end when they kind of do the whole free-for-all and the ref is like, what do I do? You know, like, who's really tagged in? And I think that fits both their styles really well and it's a good way to end the match.
00:45:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm with you guys on this one. It's a decent big guys versus big guys kind of match, but while there's some nice spots here and there, things just didn't kind of click for me. Again, I can't put anything really together on exactly why, but it just doesn't seem to quite work. There's not really any cohesive storyline to it beyond the standard tag match story. There's nothing to make it more than that, I guess.
00:46:00
Speaker
The formula is quite visible here. It was somewhat in the first tag match, too, but that one had some more surprising moves to make up for it and some more energy. It's not too hard to understand, as Doom has been in one match already, so they might be a little bit tired, understandably. The ending spot I did kind of like, actually. I thought it was pretty cool, even if, yeah, the Doom member that got taken down really clearly should have seen Hawk climbing. He is totally looking his way the entire time.
00:46:30
Speaker
but this just wasn't what it could have been. It feels like it maybe if Doom hadn't already had a match or like you said if they had more experience working together, I don't know, but it feels like there's a better match to be had between these two teams.
00:46:45
Speaker
Nitron had some interference from the previous match, but in this one, his role was to stand with his arms crossed and then just stare at the ring. Well, they saw how he sold that Steiner line. They were like, oh, go. If either Legion of Doom member hits you, you'll tick them off and they'll really hit you. Yeah, it's weird that he's not involved at all.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yeah. And how you say that, yeah, I didn't think of that. I didn't actually think about it while I was watching the match, but looking back at it afterwards, you're like, oh yeah, he didn't do anything. No. Weird. Not even once.
00:47:20
Speaker
Our fourth match is the second match of our singles tournament. It is the Great Muta with Gary Hart versus Ric Flair with Arn and Ole Anderson. I was very happy to see those two come walking down the entrance ramp again. I was very sad, as I mentioned earlier, that they weren't actually in the tag tournament. But, you know, at least they're there.
00:47:41
Speaker
Oddly, they've added Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man in front of Ric Flair's usual Sunrise fanfare from Strauss's also Sproxxarathustra. It's kind of weird. It's a cool piece, but why is Ric Flair, of all people, using a theme that says For the Common Man? I mean, that's kind of exactly the opposite of his gimmick. I would understand Dusty, but...
00:48:04
Speaker
Maybe it's a weird dig at Dusty for people that know classical music. Maybe, I don't know. I think it's a licensing thing. During the entrances we get shots of Norman the lunatic dressed as Santa Claus because reasons. I poorly raised him in my mind. They said the season is close, the season is near. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:48:29
Speaker
Just to be clear, because he didn't come up on the show at all, Norman Lunting, as you can probably guess by his name, his gimmick is that he's a mental patient. Yes. I don't know if he's a good guy at this point. I guess he must be. I assume that since he's handing out candy to children, he's a good guy. But his original when he came in, he was managed by Teddy Long.
00:48:48
Speaker
Tae Long would bring him to the ring, holding a giant key. The idea being that it was the key to his cell, so at any point he could throw him back in his cell. And so this is the guy you have interacting with the fans of Figside. Yes. Just saying. Ric Flair is currently the world champion, and the great Muta is so far unpinned.
00:49:08
Speaker
We get a lockup to start, and Flair whips Muta to the ropes but gets shoulder-blocked down. Flair tries a hip toss, but Muta punches him in the eye. Muta shoves him to the corner for kicks and hits rapid punches. Whipped to the other corner, Muta hits his handspring elbow. Elbow dropped by Muta, and he steps on Flair's face.
00:49:26
Speaker
JRM Funk note that Flare will be negatively impacted by the short time limit because he's a slow starter and likes to wrestle longer time limits. Flare wards Muta off with a kick and they trade chops. Flare wins that competition and hits an inverted atomic drop, then a shinbreaker, and then gets the figure four. Muta doesn't quite seem to sell it at first, but he does after a moment or two. Flare breaks the hold as Buzz Sawyer and the Dragon Master come down to the ring, but the Andersons take care of them.
00:49:55
Speaker
Back in the ring, Muta hits a backbreaker, then comes off the top rope in a moonsault. But Flair gets the knees up, and that stuns Muta long enough for Flair to get the three count and the win for 20 points. To one of those matches, I feel like I'll talk about the match longer than the match if itself takes place. It's a
Ric Flair vs. Great Muta Significance
00:50:12
Speaker
very, very short match that may not come across in my notes, but yeah, it's very short. Yeah, it's a minute 55, according to Wikipedia, is official match time.
00:50:20
Speaker
So yeah, it's weird that that's Muda's first match on the show and it's the first loss in like eight months in the company. I note that as a good match that is played in fast forward. And also the interference is just to add extra to that.
00:50:41
Speaker
that this is how Muta's streak ends. I mean this company, as we'll see later, is not great with streaks and how you end them. My issue is just it's Muta and Rick Flair, which I don't think we, I'm sure we got later at some point, but didn't get very often. And it's kind of a shame that we only get it here in less than two minutes. It really should be a great match as it is. It's a series of interesting spots and then just the match is over. Kind of a shame.
00:51:09
Speaker
I'm not going to say anything bad about Ric Flair, but I really enjoyed Muda. I just didn't expect things to go that way. He was clearly the aggressor of the whole match, and there's a lot of athleticism to him, and he kind of reminds me of Luchador. I think it's just his movements. He obviously has some sort of martial arts influence. It's a shame if this is his first loss in eight months.
00:51:36
Speaker
And I know that Rick needs to do his thing, but I would have liked to see a different outcome. I feel like if they weren't going with a story where Sting has to come from behind, that Sting and Muda would have been a stronger first match for Muda. And it would play off the store because Muda and Sting wrestled multiple times in the pay-per-view. And Sting could not get his win back over him after losing the title.
00:51:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, what a weirdly short match. I kind of get why you might do it, that these guys both have a lot of matches ahead, so you might want one to be short. I don't know, but considering, like you said, this is Muta's first pinfall loss in the company, and you'd think that they would want it to feel more epic. Eh, rip the Band-Aid off fast, I guess.
00:52:21
Speaker
I did appreciate that at least since it was going to be short, they made it really, really fast paced. This is straight action from beginning to the very quick and sudden end. But overall it felt underwhelming and I didn't really get a good sense for what Muta could do in this match despite seeing some of his flashier moves here. What I saw of him did look good at least. It's well performed, it's just really short without time to build to anything or seem significant.
00:52:50
Speaker
it's noble with mood i think as far as are viewing any ways is that trying to get the coast and we've had to a moon salt at all on the priest arcades i think we've had one at bambi and i don't think does is moon salty does see his splash right we have top rope moves you know coming up with flair or other people but only if you had a moon salt yet anybody and his is beautiful oh he has a good job with it
00:53:17
Speaker
It's kind of a shame that this big thing for us is also his downfall. It's like, well, it's really cool. Oh, nevermind. Well, it's like, uh, we haven't seen Lex Luger successfully use his torture rack yet either. That's true. And that's a cool looking submission hold, but it's just like, it's this big move. Oh, it literally never has worked yet. Okay. It's like a flare doing the cross body never did work the first time and just skipped right to it, never working again.
00:53:48
Speaker
At least you got to see the Andersons. Yeah. I did get to see Arne Anderson punch somebody, so I'm a little happier. Yeah. No, I was rooting for Muda all two minutes of it, so... Yeah. Our fifth match is back to the tag tournament, and we get the Steiner Brothers versus the Road Warriors with Paul Ellering.
Steiner Brothers vs. Road Warriors
00:54:12
Speaker
Scott has new gear on as he comes down to the ring, but Rick is dressed the same.
00:54:16
Speaker
But he smells great. He probably has like 85 copies of the same outfit backstage. I hope that's what that was. I hope so too. JR says that this is the irresistible force versus the immovable object and that this is the current champs versus the former champs and those regarded as perhaps the greatest tag team today. Cornett chimes in that it's the insensible force versus the illiterate object. That's Cornett for you. Always ready for the sharp comment there.
00:54:45
Speaker
You really build you up. Yeah. Scott and Hawk start off with Scott out wrestling Hawk, but Hawk holding his own with power. There's an amazing spot where Hawk catches Scott's leg on a kick, but Scott smoothly flips sideways, rolls, grabs Hawk's leg, and takes him down all in one motion. Cornetta's actually amazed by that one, and so was I. Oh yeah, absolutely.
00:55:09
Speaker
Hawk does better against Rick, hitting a massive clothesline that flips him end over end, but it takes too long to go for the pin, and he only gets two and a half.
00:55:18
Speaker
Animal gets in, and Rick proves that he knows hard clotheslines too, as he nails Animal in the jaw with a Steiner line. Again, Animal fights back with power, but Rick reverses him with skilled wrestling, switching up a belly-to-belly suplex to hit his own. Scott and Hawk back in, and Hawk finally manages to overpower Scott, military pressing him with ease to start a more sustained assault.
00:55:39
Speaker
With Animal in, though, Scott still manages a sudden belly-to-belly suplex for two and, like, seven-eighths, but gets too eager on a charge in the corner and eats a massive clothesline that knocks him flat. Cornette notes that Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance will be the biggest loser tonight as they're going to be paying some medical bills.
00:55:59
Speaker
Hawk back in to continue the attack, including a great gut-wrench suplex, but Scott turns things around again with a belly-to-belly off-the-top turnbekel. It takes him down too, though, and Animal is in with a bear hug. The road warriors press the attack hard and land strikes in a big power slam and elbow drop before Rick saves, and it all breaks down in a brawl.
00:56:19
Speaker
Cornette proclaims, I'm going with the road warriors, I'm always right about things like this. The road warriors go for the doomsday device, but animals grip on Scott as weird. And Scott gets his shoulder up while animals is down, earning the Steiner's the pin and 20 points. Cornette wonderfully says, no, it couldn't be, I'm always right. JR says, not this time, pal. The crowd is really, really torn about how to react to that one. Oh, yeah.
00:56:47
Speaker
It was a really nice conscious dial here because obviously the world warriors, if not they don't know wrestling moves at all because obviously they do, but they're definitely not known for that. They're known for throwing you around, just punching you and knocking you down. So seeing them fighting someone that really does suplexes and that kind of stuff is really neat to see. Because the question comes in with them is can they keep up with that?
00:57:09
Speaker
Sometimes they can't, but sometimes they actually can. To their credit, their warriors do pre-repectable showing. Obviously they're gonna have to be the Steiner's in that regard. But hey, it's still pretty good.
00:57:20
Speaker
Yeah, the key for me was just that the Stiners outwrestled them. I think it's funny, they just talked about how they didn't ever do the doomsday device, and then they tried to do it, but they intentionally do the move wrong just for this finish. Because the way it always works is you hold them and they let them go. They don't fall back with them like that and hold them into a pin, but for some reason they try to do that, and this time it doesn't work.
00:57:45
Speaker
and a way from the match at all which is kind of a funny side note for me it's really fun watch that so and here i thought the hawk was the one that did it wrong and you know that it ended up that way but you're right they don't hold them like that
00:58:00
Speaker
I like the opposing styles. Both are clearly good at what they do. Hawk and Animal are usually pretty domineering, but the signers give them a really good run with a lot of finesse. Still just huge strong moves on both sides. One strikes, one's
00:58:19
Speaker
actual wrestling. And at some point I keep on thinking that they're going to do something football related, because once I do that three point stance, he's going to charge them, waiting for some imaginary ball to be hiked. I like the back and forth, and there's a lot of tension in that match for me.
00:58:40
Speaker
good teams and the crowd clearly loves both of them so the crowd like can't pick between the two of them for the duration of the match which is a pretty neat crowd reaction that you get I think during it yeah this was a heck of a fun match had a great story emphasized really well by the announcers that is technical expertise versus raw power
00:59:02
Speaker
The Steiner's, particularly Scott, show off some excellent wrestling work, and to keep the Road Warriors off balance, they're always able to twist away the power advantage at just the right moment. But the Road Warriors are always tough enough to just keep on coming, and the Steiners can never get them in a solid lock or hold to wear them down. Both teams hit some absolutely massive moves to each other, and they just had an energy to it that made it a really easy watch.
00:59:26
Speaker
The tag formula I felt was not as visible in this either. While Scott kind of gets a face and peril segment, his established technical skill makes it feel like the match can always go his way. It's like he's not fully in trouble.
00:59:39
Speaker
to the degree you normally get. He's not in the Wrecking Morton, yeah. Yeah. Just great tag match here. Lots of energy to it, despite the fact that, as I said, the crowd is so torn on who they want to root for. It's a bit of a weird ending, but it fits the story well. Scott's technical skill wins the day over the Road Warriors power. I just wish, like I said, it wasn't quite so highlighted by Animal lifting the Scott for the Doomsday device in a way he's never done before or since. But still a really, really fun match.
01:00:10
Speaker
This match, I have to say, was actually so fun to watch that I regularly forgot that I was supposed to be taking notes. I'd watch like a minute of it and be like, oh god, I was supposed to be typing that after Rewind. Didn't mind doing that at all because I got to see it again.
01:00:29
Speaker
it's interesting seeing the match like this, because a lot of times when there's a match that you really want to see happen, and they're often not as good as you think they're going to be, you're like, oh, well, something go wrong, I want to be injured or something. In this case, I think actually delivered for, it's nice to see that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's also interesting that they gave it, they actually gave it a conclusive finish. That's true. Where normally you get
01:00:51
Speaker
This oh, it's a dream match. We never get to see these guys fight and they get a count out or they get accidental DQ or Brawlers back an enemy of both guys will come down to the ring and hit one of them Something will always interrupt it where you don't actually get it and they don't actually have to tell you who wins But in this one they actually told you yes the Steiner's beat the road warriors. Yeah, I
01:01:15
Speaker
do you think the tournament is what you know the formula is what keeps everyone in play i think it's yeah it's interesting to think
01:01:23
Speaker
What would have happened if they just were doing this as like just a regular match between the two of them? Would you have gotten an actual ending out of it? Or is it specifically because we're doing the tournament and we can kind of adjust the feeling of the night with the scores and everything that you get to see a definitive ending to this? And I don't know, but that's an interesting thought.
01:01:46
Speaker
If that's the case, then it's a double bonus. Not only do you get to see some resolution, your guys are still in the game even if it's not the ones you're rooting for. Right, yeah.
01:01:59
Speaker
Our next match is back to the single side of the night and we are watching the great Muta with Gary Hart versus Sting. Neither man has touched up his face pain as they come out. JR and Funk talk about the fact that both of these men need a win. They both lost their first match. Muta sprays green mist in the air and dies as hand green. They have an interesting cautious start as they look for openings and Muta forces Sting back with a quick kick.
01:02:28
Speaker
Muda gets a full Nelson on Sting, but he twists out of it into his own on Muda, who backs him into the corner. Sting breaks and tries to protect himself in case of the usual sort of back elbow or punch, but Muda hits a mule kick instead. Clever. JR and Funk build up that Muda's first loss might have shaken him, but Sting probably used more energy in his longer first match. Great commentary there.
01:02:51
Speaker
Muta gets a headlock takedown, but Sting fights to his feet and they rapidly run the ropes as Muta hits a shoulder block, but Sting fires back with a monkey flip, clothesline, and snaps suplex all in moments. Sting smoothly leads into the scorpion deathlock, but Muta scrambles and grabs the ropes before it can be applied. Muta rolls out and takes a walk to get focused.
01:03:11
Speaker
Muta gets back in and he rakes Sting's eyes. Back body drops, stamped mare and a really fast elbow drop all lead into some kind of amazing double chicken wing arm walk with bridge that looked really, really cool. The fans chant for Sting and he struggles, then finally forward flips along the ground to land on Muta's chest to break.
01:03:31
Speaker
Sting lands rapid strikes and a military press for two, and his own high jumping elbow drop before grabbing a chinlock. Muta pushes him into the corner and lands shoulder blocks when Sting tries to break. Nice touch, he varies up how he's hit Sting from before, to keep him guessing. Heart tries to tell ref Nick Patrick that Muta can't understand counting in English, so Patrick has to let him see his fingers. I don't buy that for a second, but Patrick gamely tries it.
01:03:58
Speaker
Muta gets Sting down and goes for the moonsault. Sting dodges, but Muta lands on his feet and nails a jumping spin kick to Sting's face. Muta goes back up, but Sting leaps up and hits a drop kick to his face to knock him onto the turnbuckle, then climbs up for a super flex for the three. Sting gets the pinfall win and 20 points.
01:04:16
Speaker
That was a really good match. This is one like I talked about briefly with the Stiners and Doom. They fought to the before, so there was definitely chemistry there and experience. And obviously in this case they worked a lot more together than the Stiners and Doom have. They've been feeding on and off like half of the year at this point. Yeah.
01:04:35
Speaker
So they have all these matches to build off of and even play up in the story. Like you're talking about where he tries to get out of the corner without uncovering his face up and then he kicks him low. Yeah. That's really nice. I also like that Muda go from Muda's solid and when it doesn't hit, he's actually ready and he lands on his feet and then plays off the fact that I'm not going to fall to the same trick twice. Of course, he then immediately gets caught trying to do it again, but I think he's a little away from that. But I appreciate that part of it.
01:05:03
Speaker
I definitely liked their chemistry together with Shrek that it was very clear that they had experience with this. They knew it moved work, they didn't even want to try new ones attacking different angles, trying its mission holds. On that mission he noted the one where he hooks the arm slips over. That was used a lot by Bryan Danielson on the Andy circuit and very briefly in his WWE career. He literally uses it once on one of the shows and the commentary calls it what it's actually called, which is cattle mutilation.
01:05:34
Speaker
Which is weird, I'll grant you. That's the name of the move. Cattle mutilation. Yep. You can Google it. Yeah. Okay. Maybe Muta's using it now because Sting is a cow hip. Oh yeah. So he's got to mutilate that cattle. Tie it all together. Tie it all together. Yes. I will do anything to give meaning to that sign from last year.
01:06:00
Speaker
I will note that I understand there's a difference between backflipping and landing on your stomach on a guy versus being thrown off and landing on your back. But then it's a little funny that a guy whose finishing move is flipping off the start of a landing on his body, getting it on by a different move that's going in their direction. Yeah, true. I think he'd be the most resistant to Superplex ever. He'd be like, yeah, nothing. I don't feel a thing. But no, it takes him down.
01:06:26
Speaker
I don't think it was intentional storyline thing, because Wyndham's not around at this point for a number of weird reasons. But it's notable that that's very Wyndham's finisher before he left and when he comes back. It's kind of weird seeing Sting do that.
01:06:39
Speaker
This is the most anticipated one when I was looking at the matches together because I wanted to see a new character and I really like Sting, and so I was like, Muda versus Sting. They both show both speed and power in their own way. With Muda, it's probably a little bit more finessed and everything looks very fluid.
01:07:00
Speaker
And not to say that Sting isn't fluid at all, I'm just saying both of their styles shine. I was a big fan of, I guess, cattle mutilation, or it looked like a reverse full Nelson, so like a full Nelson or some sort of...
01:07:18
Speaker
arching over arching thing but there's a move that we learned was it used a half chicken wing and a cross face and then what you what we did is you walk up along the side of the guy and then you instead of bridging yourself to hold them to the mat you actually flipped them over so that they were in a bridge and it was called a surfboard.
01:07:41
Speaker
I know that that one looked a lot more painful for all participants, but that's what it reminded me of. I was really hoping for Muda for that one. I love Sting. There's no wrong outcome.
01:08:01
Speaker
It was neat to see some of the creative matwork from Muta, because you know that he's good with the kicks and everything. You got to see that with him and Flair, and he's got the agility with the moonsault and all, but seeing him able to put on this really interesting creative mat hold as well. He's a very well-rounded wrestler, it feels like, would you? Yeah.
01:08:26
Speaker
I can see that being a moment that spoke to you with your wrestling background yourself that caught your eye. It was, that's neat to hear. Yeah. In matches, they actually, during the year that we were taught it, they actually banned that move because if you do it wrong, you can really torque someone's back when you're doing, because you're laying on them. And then if you don't walk far enough up, you know, when you go to bridge them, they can get stuck on a Mac and really hurt themselves.
01:08:55
Speaker
So you only do that move if you're a heal and the ref isn't looking, right? Oh, no. It was a hard setup, but you know, it was one of those things like it's not something you would expect to happen. So it worked the three or four times we did it in a match. Cool.
01:09:13
Speaker
This was a fast-paced, really, really high energy match between two excellent performers. Great mix of action here, tons of variety, all at high speed the whole way. Considering that both of them have fought once tonight, and I know that Muta's match was short, but let's face it, it was at quite a fast pace too, I really wasn't expecting them to just go full tilt this whole match. I felt like this was one match where I kept getting more out of it as I watched it more times, noticing the subtle points in their performances.
01:09:42
Speaker
Really nice ending too. Muta learns from his mistake earlier in the night, but Sting is still able to surprise him in another way. It's a showcase for both men. And like you said earlier, Al, I wish this had been Muta's first loss. This had the big match feel that I felt needed. And yeah, if you'd switched this in Flair's match, I would have had a much better feel of, oh, Muta took his first loss, but man, it was a good match getting there. You know, where with the Flair one, it felt kind of underwhelming.
01:10:12
Speaker
Well, and yeah, Mudo could in theory also be like really hesitant and everything, so the Flare one would even make more sense that he was winded from this really big match with Sting, and also morally defeated from not being able to adapt.
01:10:30
Speaker
That's definitely a good point that it'd give you more reason for Flair being able to take him down so unexpectedly if he's shaken up from his first loss and from losing to a guy he's been able to beat a few times, you know? Yeah.
01:10:45
Speaker
We take a brief break and go to the desk with JR and Funk, who note that we've got a three-way tie in the singles competition, with it looking good for everyone but Muta. Cornette
Tournament Standings Update
01:10:55
Speaker
and JR discuss that the signers are in the lead in the tag division, but the advantage may be with the Samoans, who haven't wrestled yet, and who no one had time to prepare for since they were the late replacement for the skyscrapers. Good way to use the emergency replacement as part of the actual storyline, I thought.
01:11:12
Speaker
They show the lady backstage that puts the score up on the board back there. Yeah, I forgot to mention her. Yeah. So he's doing it as the show goes on. But towards the end of the show, we see they have a digitally up for the crowd in the arena to see. Couldn't you just zoom up to that? Like they do many times later? You would think so, yes.
01:11:29
Speaker
Cornet predicts that the Steiners will win the tournament, but he's hesitant about it. Funk predicts that Lex Luger will win the singles tournament, and Cornet immediately compliments him on his choice and shakes his hand enthusiastically. I do like the bridge in commentary, that is JR and Bolt segments. Yes. So you're not disconnected like when the where they had the two different arenas and they were coming to different commentary teams.
01:11:52
Speaker
Everything revolves around him on the show. He has this very reliable voice that just provides straight commentary on things, and then Funk comes in to bring his commentary in analysis and all, and Cornet comes in to bring his commentary in analysis. So yeah, it works quite well, I think, from that standpoint. JR is among both an anchor and a man, so I can't think of a way to combine those two into one word. I'll come to you later. Yeah. Sailor. Thank you. There you go.
01:12:22
Speaker
JR as Popeye. The seventh match is the Samoans in their first match of the night. That's Fatu and Sam with Sir Oliver Humberdink, the Big Kahuna, versus the Team of Doom with Woman and Nitron in their last match of the night.
01:12:38
Speaker
JR and Cornet talk up how Doom is really only able to be spoilers at this point. With 0 points and the signers already at 35, Doom can't possibly win, but they can damage the Samoans' chances. The Samoans do their pre-match ceremony and get booed. I've already made my thoughts clear on that, so I'll leave off. Cornet points out that it's Doom's third match and the Samoans' first, so advantage Samoans.
01:13:02
Speaker
Doom 1, I'm not sure if we're still basing this off of the number one is whoever starts theory, now the animal's no longer involved, but Doom 1 starts out against Fatu. They wrestle for control and are pretty evenly matched. Doom gets a body slam, but Fatu gets a running power slam. They trade headbutts and it dazes both, so their partners tag in. Sam and Doom 2 brawl, and Sam does well at first, but a missed splash off the top rope slows him down, letting Doom 2 and Doom 1 trade off to take solid control.
01:13:30
Speaker
Cornette says that woman has lit a fire under Doom's mask, which sounds kind of painful. Sounds very painful, yes.
01:13:38
Speaker
Sounds like they were misquoting. Yeah.
01:14:00
Speaker
Sam dodges a shoulder block off the second rope to tag Fatu, and Fatu lands rapid punches and a charging flying headbutt for two, but the other Doom saves. Everyone brawls, and Fatu and one Doom knock heads in the melee. Doom goes down, and Fatu wobbles, but Humperdin quickly reaches in and pushes Fatu on top for the three and twenty points. We get a great, seething, angry look from Woman. She just looks absolutely enraged.
01:14:28
Speaker
one event that she was see your team with a smart by a guy called the pick a hoonah really he should understand we make you mad
01:14:36
Speaker
This is definitely the weakest of the three Doom matches for me, which is kind of a shame. Definitely at a slower pace too, whatever all. I can at least appreciate that you really break down the story that Doom, even though they can't win, is at least showing a teamwork here. That they're essentially making the Samoan faces. I don't know if they're actually our faces at this point. I don't know if they're supposed to be heals, but... They get booed during their pre-match ceremonies, so I'm guessing they're their heals too, yeah.
01:15:01
Speaker
I can appreciate at least that they're in a situation where they're both healed, so they go, let's just make sure that they think one of us is the face. So I can lose problem for having the chemistry there. No, no, no, it really stuck for me. It's not that memorable.
01:15:16
Speaker
I do like the creativity of the finish. It's weird that they rely on the headbutt dazing a couple times in one match, though. It's like they only have so many ideas, I guess. But at least the way it works is creative and interesting. Weirdly, my issue is, normally, I like a match a lot, and then when there's a screwery or shady finish, it takes away from me. In this case, it's actually the most interesting part of the match for me, so it's a fun invert, I guess.
01:15:41
Speaker
It's all about the variety. Yeah. I liked that they both did the similar tactics and like, oh, who's really tagged in kind of thing? Tried to pretend that I almost called them assassins because it's the same premise. True.
01:15:58
Speaker
Doom or its sequel, sometimes don't tag in and they just let the other person take over, so there's always a fresh person on the mat, the Samoans, they're always picking some fight with the ref, so he never sees it. It's not like he's totally blind. There was some good athleticism from both sides, but it didn't really have any real excitement for me.
01:16:23
Speaker
Yes, kind of. I mean, one, this is the two teams that we're at least familiar with, I think. Yeah. And two, they're both heels. So as much as you can do to make one of them seem more like the face team for the match, you know, they're both getting booed by the crowd, basically. So it's hard to get into a match like this.
01:16:43
Speaker
I thought it was pretty standard, nothing exceptional, but it was nice to see Doom try a few different things that I hadn't seen from them in earlier matches. Holding onto the leg, tagging in and out more frequently, sneaking in a quick tag while being hit. I kinda honestly was wondering if the Andersons had a talk with them backstage. They were like, hey, you guys should try some of this stuff.
01:17:03
Speaker
They had some good double team spots. I don't feel like I got to see a lot of what the Samoans could do. We got very little at all from Fatu, and Sam mostly spends the match selling for Doom. They don't really get to showcase much. Probably a means of conserving their energy, but it does make for a bit of a one-sided match. I was honestly surprised when they won this one, but like for you, Al, it was a good kind of surprise. The ending spot is pretty smart, and I liked the sneaky quick shove that Humberdink did to get his team to win.
01:17:32
Speaker
It was one of those spots where everything has to be timed perfectly, and it actually was, so it worked really well. So I didn't mind this one, but I can't say I'll remember it much. That ending spot
Lex Luger vs. Ric Flair Analysis
01:17:43
Speaker
might stick with me for a bit, but the rest of the match is kind of, eh, it's there.
01:17:46
Speaker
way as it's a recommendation that it seemed to be certainly with their both heels and this point it's anticlimax what happens to do many ways because even if hypothetically they do to spoil a victory for the moments it's up to more matches so it's not definitive anyway for them at all
01:18:05
Speaker
It'd be one thing if Doom was acting as the spoilers for a face team. It's like the Steiners are in this match against Doom and they're like, oh, Doom could hurt the Steiner's chances or the Legion of Doom's chances for later in the night. That'd be something where I'd be like, oh, yeah, that's a great storyline build up. But it's the team that is a heal team anyway. So it's kind of like you haven't given me a reason to root for either team, really, is the problem with this one.
01:18:29
Speaker
In that scenario there could have been a really good spot where there was a situation where the Legion of Doom or the Stiners actually distract the ref so that the other team is not disqualified so they could get more points by actually trying to pin them. Match number eight is Lex Luger versus Rick Flair as the singles tournament continues.
01:18:57
Speaker
Luger gets some cool spinning pyro on the stage. Flair didn't bother to put the robe on for a second entrance. It's kind of weird to see Flair come down to the ring just kind of strolling and not having a robe. Yeah, it's true. It kind of takes a lot out of his entrance.
01:19:13
Speaker
JR mentions that they've got the cameras mic'd so you can hear the action in the ring. It was kind of weird to hear that. I was like, isn't that a normal thing? Don't you always do that? I can normally hear what's going on in the ring just fine. They're trying to justify the yelling. Yeah, I was going to say, either way, good idea to mic up the Luger selling. I appreciate that. He is aware Luger is going to be super loud and like, oh yeah, they're mic'd now. That's it. Funk gives Flare a lot of respect and says he took his best shot, but Flare is still at the top.
01:19:45
Speaker
We start off with round two of Luger vs. the Crowd. As JRM Funk again discussed Flair normally needing like 20-25 minutes to get into gear. Hashtag Greg Valentine, apologies to OSW Review. Luger uses his raw power to overcome Flair's technical skill at first. The crowd hurls abuse at him, and a guy in the crowd tries a muscle pose at Luger. You are not winning that particular comparison, buddy.
01:20:10
Speaker
When Flair manages to get some leverage, Luger tugs on his hair to put him back down, which gets Flair so angry Luger actually scampers for the corner. Chops break Luger's momentum, and Flair starts working his arm as we get some wonderful, loud Luger selling, particularly when Flair grabs a hammerlock on the ground and starts driving his knees into Luger's arm. Luger briefly breaks free, but Flair hits a nice double underhook suplex before going back to the armwork.
01:20:35
Speaker
Frustrated and in pain, Luger howls increasingly loudly, and it looks like Flair just has him mastered. But at the same time, Flair can't seem to do much to actually get him down. He keeps maneuvering him into pins with ease, but can't hold him down for the three. He ends up just trying to take away Luger's strength and time ticks away.
01:20:53
Speaker
Luger finally manages to power through and drops Flair throat first on the top rope, and takes control with really aggressive stomps and a big clothesline. It's his game now as Flair's two days to find a comeback, and Luger hits a military press and keeps up the beating. Flair gets a comeback after a countered suplex and counters Whip into the corner with a quick flip out of the ring and run along the ropes before coming off the top rope, but gets nailed with a clothesline because the top rope will never be kind to Rick Flair. It was awesome.
01:21:23
Speaker
Things get more even, and Flair works in as usual to run off the top rope spot for good measure. Luger tries a big elbow drop, but Flair dodges. Belly to back suplex, takes Luger down, and Flair gets the figure four out of nowhere. Luger sounds like someone is stabbing knives in his legs, writhing around on the mat and screaming, but time runs out, and the match ends as a draw. Five points each.
01:21:46
Speaker
I thought it was another really strong match. They've advantage, obviously, of being the main event, if you don't count the Punk House Brawl, which they didn't fund the show, other than briefly mentioning over the PA, they didn't cut out. During a promo? Yes, during a promo. But yeah, being the main event of Stark 88, and obviously, I think they have matches between those two. They definitely have matches in the future. I'm sure they've had some house show stuff at the very least, so.
01:22:11
Speaker
What's the thing, too, is that I'm pretty sure the 88 show was built as Luger's last chance. So it's interesting that they get their shot at him part of the tournament with nothing, especially on the line, which is kind of interesting. The thing I really liked was that Luger really embraced his heel side, especially more now.
01:22:32
Speaker
It's almost kind of easy to be healing and sting because he's so likable. Yes. Whereas he's facing a relatively untested face flare. True, yeah. So he goes all out, whether it's the hair pulling, eye poking, the yelling at the crowd. All that he does is really good. It's really a good showcase for heal Luger. And honestly, it's a pretty good showcase for face flare, which is not really appreciated that much.
01:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, true. There's long to the time we're just a super heal for like most of the show we did in super heal is only This is only the first only the first arcade that he was a face. Yeah, so you have like five years straight Yeah, okay heal with some redeeming qualities
01:23:12
Speaker
first show he was a face, the second show I'd say he was kind of still midway but makes a solid heel turn during the middle of that match with Dustin. And then yeah he's really heavily heel, very strongly and very like lunatic fringe heel at times.
01:23:28
Speaker
what's the other thing too is that so now that fit flares a face and louisville he's has to live up to standard of he'll flare against flare which is definitely hard and so i feel failed try to make for a player like uh... by lindell especially uh... i don't miss my window
01:23:49
Speaker
I don't hate to buy Landell personally, or I hate his match, it was just weird to mention Rick Flair for no reason and it was the payoff because he left the company. It was a weird non sequitur as a whole for the company.
01:24:01
Speaker
I wish obviously it had a clear finish, but that in mind, I understand they're going for this complicated thing of the points and trying to keep the dynamic going. There's some poor guy in the back with like a float chart trying to make sure these points were exactly right and get these matches that way. I forget which matches it's in, but JR does joke that you have to be a mathematician to calculate where everyone's position is now.
01:24:23
Speaker
Yeah. It's almost a shame that Dusty's not around because I wouldn't picture Dusty in the back with like little tiny glasses and like maybe an abacus trying to do this. And then I guess it's Arne Anderson and Ollie playing with the cow care like the chimps from Tells & Wests based Odyssey. It's great visual. But yeah, I really it's really like Luger in this. His sewing is really strong and ridiculous, but it really works to help the flare look so strong.
01:24:52
Speaker
One thing I really, really liked too was, right near the end, flag of the figure four on, he is selling, like I said, there's knives in his legs. He knows that time is running out, and before I think there's legitimately time running out this time, always it's close to that. It's better than before, where it's like 10 minutes and it matches over, and five minutes cut out. So it's like counting down, and as it's going towards like three, two, one, he has his shoulder down and pulls it up just before the one, both the ref and on the count.
01:25:19
Speaker
Yes. And so dramatically in fashion. Really, really good timing on that. I was really impressed by that. Yeah. It's nice to see a rematch and Luger wear himself out from throwing Rick around the ring. For sure, yeah. You can only lift someone over your head so many times and throw them off the ropes. That rope spot where he goes right into the clothesline, I thought he was actually going to be injured. Oh, wow.
01:25:49
Speaker
It looks like his legs come out from underneath him and he just falls down like he's all forward motion except for his jawline continues on the bottom part of his body. It's almost a Luger line.
01:26:01
Speaker
Yeah. It was a very good match. I enjoyed it a lot. And those mics on those cameras must have been tuned up a little bit because it was loud. Whoa! Oh! Yep. But I mean, like, it would be, I don't know, it would be kind of gross if you didn't have a picture to go with it. You just listened to the sounds. Yeah.
01:26:29
Speaker
The finish was a little lackluster, but it is what it is. I would have bought the knives. He actually looked like he was flopping like a fish out of water kind of thing, because he actually moved them across the ring towards the middle, not towards any of the ropes.
01:26:48
Speaker
I would have bought it more if he was working his legs, not that arm the whole time. To be sure, Flair's handstands and then going into the knee look pretty impressive. It would make more sense if he did, I know he doesn't have a
01:27:08
Speaker
figure four thumb war or whatever you know arm version, you know some sort of arm lock You got to end on a signature move. It just didn't make as much sense I would have liked if he if it if they did something like in the middle of it's like, okay The arms not he's still throwing me off the off the you know, top turn buckle. Maybe I should start going for his legs Yeah, I agree I think that's the one big flaw of this match is that
01:27:34
Speaker
You get this terrific Luger cell of the figure four at the end of the match, but there's no reason that the figure four should be hurting him that badly without Flair doing any of his normal setup for it. And you see Flair do the normal setup for it earlier in the night and later in the night, but you just don't get that setup in this match. It feels like they forgot a couple steps or something like that.
01:27:57
Speaker
or even the flare showed like some sort of desperation. I mean, like, you know, like he put the hole in quick, you know? Yeah. But if he looked like he worked himself up just before doing it, it would be like, okay, he's really, you know. It's like, yeah, if you had a sense that he was putting it on harder than usual or something. Yeah.
01:28:16
Speaker
Yeah, this was a really, really nice match aside from that. Kind of the reversed alignment version of the match they had last time. Flare gets to be the canny, clever, technically skilled face who keeps ahead of the big, angry, powerful heal. Flare gets to do a lot of damage, but Luger just has too much power to go down, and it makes Flare look really skilled, but Luger gets to show off just by being able to power free of some things where others might have to fight for leverage or find the right angle. The announcers did a really good job playing that up, I thought.
01:28:43
Speaker
Flare runs rings around Luger and stays in control easily, and he can make any pin or hold happen, but he can't actually keep Luger down for the three or make him give up. Luger's too powerful. I thought it fit really nicely with the announcer's comments about Flare being more comfortable with longer matches. He just needs more time to actually chip away at a guy as powerful as Luger.
01:29:04
Speaker
other than the problems with setting up for the figure 4, I think this was an absolutely terrific match and a really cool, like, reversed story to see as a rematch from the previous year. The thing also in the figure 4 is I think, especially at this point, you're supposed to believe that as soon as it's on, it's a very painful, damaging hold. So you're supposed to be able to accept that he does that quickly. I understand he normally does do setup for it.
01:29:29
Speaker
And it wouldn't, I don't think it would bother me if he didn't do the setup for it at the other times he puts the figure four on tonight. But against Muta, he does the setup for it. Against Sting later, he does the setup for it. So this is the only time that we don't get the figure four setup.
01:29:45
Speaker
And what's really weird is Luger is really over-selling in the beginning. And then there's like a five second period where Rick is still looking like he's working the hold and he just lays there. He's passed out. The idea of the figure four, I think.
01:30:01
Speaker
Someone, I think, does actually talk about this on commentary, not on this show, but on some other ones. If you lay back, if you're the guy taking the hold, if you lay back, that does relieve the pressure a bit in some way, you know, in the weird fictional justification of the figure four. But, of course, if you do that, you're risking being pinned because your shoulders are down. It works as a spot, but it is kind of like, wait, what's the actual physics of this? You know?
01:30:26
Speaker
It's a very, very minor point on the match. I don't think it takes much away at all. One thing is I get that issue with the previous match, where Flair spends like 20 minutes attacking the upper body and the arms, and then he goes, oh, chair into that. Yeah. So it actually bothers me less because it's so much quicker, because then the last part of that, and it just goes into the sequence of he has to be down, you've done the figure four.
01:30:53
Speaker
Our ninth match is back to the tag side, and it's the Samoans versus the Steiner brothers. The Samoans' music starts up with them about halfway down the ramp. Great timing, guys. Yeah. Rick seems odd as the two Steiners walk down towards the ring. He seems to try to slide down the entrance ramp and just seems in kind of a playful mood.
01:31:33
Speaker
Those letter jackets. Yeah.
01:31:39
Speaker
The teams face off, crawling on the ground, and Rick comes over to ride on Scott's back. Scott gives him kind of a, what the heck dude, look. Rick starts making fun of the Samoan ceremony, doing his own version of it whenever they try and do it. That continues in the early going as Sam tries to fight Rick, but Rick keeps mocking him. A Steiner line rips out one of Sam's hair braids, so Rick tucks in his headgear as the Samoans look to take a walk, but Humperdin convinces them to return.
01:32:05
Speaker
Fatou trades clothesline for Steinerline with Rick and swaps places with Sam, unnoticed by the ref but caught by the crowd. Rick and Sam face off on all fours, and JR wonders if someone spiked Rick's alpo, so I guess it's not just me that thinks Rick's acting a little bit weird here. They're sure, yeah.
01:32:20
Speaker
Tag to Scott, who gets a Steiner line and a neat pin where he moves from a front face lock to grabbing the leg to flipping over Sam into the pin. Tag to Rick and he gets caught in the Samoan corner, but Sam accidentally hits Fatu, and the two argue while Rick tries to egg them on. They ignore him and make peace.
01:32:36
Speaker
Tag back to Scott and things finally, finally pick up a bit as Sam grabs the ropes to dodge the Frankensteiner and Scott lands hard. Sam chucks him out through the middle rope and Fatou dumps Scott, crotch first on the barricade to put him solidly in face imperiled roll. The Samoans trade off beating Scott down with headbutts, thrust kicks, and strikes and double team Scott and switch off unnoticed by the ref whenever Rick accidentally distracts the ref, which is often. That also earns Scott a chuck over the top rope at one point.
01:33:05
Speaker
Things slow down a bit with bear hugs from Fatu and Sam in turn, but a nice power slam by Sam makes up for that. Scott hits the Frankensteiner to a monster crowd pop, but he's too hurt and Fatu manages to tag Sam to block the tag. Scott gets free after a missed falling headbutt, but Sam manages to stop another Scott tag, but Rick comes in anyway and hits Steiner lines to both Samoans.
01:33:28
Speaker
Everybody in, and in the melee, Scott throws one of the Samoans over the top rope, but the ref sees it. The Samoans win by DQ and get 10 points. The Steiners are done with 35 points total. That's bull crap. Sorry. Hey, that was my line. To the ending or to the match as a whole? Well, no, the ending definitely. He just stood up. He didn't even like, you know, really
01:33:52
Speaker
Yeah. It just happened to be down when he hit him and then he stood up and just tumbled over. Yeah, that's how it happens. I know, but it's not like he intentionally did anything. No, that was absolutely clearly intentional. Okay.
01:34:08
Speaker
uh... yes as bob mentioned in the free cap there's a really weird slow start to this match i don't understand what's going on make we're watching for serving persons that terrible at the wrestling show where jake roberts is student bad personal issues backstage and is not using to perform in the if they try to come on to try and form it never quite gets there yeah he's obviously used with a clear issue rick's i don't know what's going on with him
01:34:36
Speaker
I don't know. I don't quite get it. I feel like they're going for a character thing where they're like going back to kind of his goofy character from last year but it just doesn't quite come off right to me. I don't know. No, one is weird that it's the third match of the show. Yeah. Like suddenly he just has a reversion I guess. I don't know. He got hit in the head you know. Yeah.
01:34:57
Speaker
Um, yeah, after that it definitely gets better. Um, their actual interactions is good. They do a good job of Scott Steiner's based peril. T's not tagged. He's not tagged really well. The parts in the middle definitely show what the Steiner's are good at. Um, the Samoans, they don't, again, don't think bad. They just don't really impress me all that much. They're there and they're competent, but there's no, the other thing extra they bring to the ring that, I don't know, that someone else can also brush the ring.
01:35:27
Speaker
So I have to dispute a little bit of the finished part from the recap. So what happens is, the guy runs into Scott Steiner, briefly looks before the spot at him, then looks back over at Rick and the other Samoan. The fall happens, and big Kahuna guy goes over there and starts yelling at the ref who walks over. Oh, OK. I missed that. Kahuna is the one who's pointing and yelling at the ref, telling him that he threw over. And then someone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what happened. And I was like, oh, OK.
01:35:57
Speaker
Sudden super believing ref is sudden. Yeah. If not Nick Patrick so, I don't think it's a trust issue. That's I think the ref we dubbed the Old West Saloon ref is a very nice big mustache. The outro, yeah. Like the Saloon on an Old Western you'd watch with John Wayne. Yeah, I really don't like that finish they put on there at all.
01:36:23
Speaker
I've never really liked the top rope DQ thing, especially notable that they have the heels do it, and the ref doesn't see it. Though I guess it's better than the time when the ref does see it, and now to make it some excuses. Yeah. At least this is another point where the top rope DQ thing actually does matter. Yeah. But I'd still prefer that it didn't exist as a rule.
01:36:45
Speaker
yet for each one you get one point for doing and then lose a thousand point for doing it yes for the psychology is that but you have to do like thirteen nice things to uh... make up for one negative thing yeah so maybe some psychology here
01:37:03
Speaker
Loss aversion, I don't know. Childhood problems. There's lots of hugging and they try to hug it out in this one. I was kind of hoping they cut back to the kid that they ripped out of the crowd. Yeah, we don't actually see the kids again after that initial moment.
01:37:23
Speaker
This match was all over the place. The ending was just bull crap. Sorry. I would have liked to see a little bit more variety. I would like to see what the Samoan SWAT team could do. I did like, even when they resorted to just the bear hugs and stuff, because I love those so much.
01:37:45
Speaker
It really did stop the Siders from doing anything. They didn't have some experience or some alt counter involved that could get them out of it right away. It was just sort of, okay, I have to sit and deal. And I thought that was at least somewhat balancing.
01:38:02
Speaker
Dave, do you feel like you got a little bit of a storyline of the Steiner's are too tired to maneuver the way they normally do because they've had two matches already or? Well, I mean that and I actually like, you know, I thought that the Samoan tag team was probably a little bit stronger than I know they don't look necessarily like, you know, they seem to be a little more dominant, you know, when when they were actually just doing strength versus strength. It was still nice to see the Steiner's like take this big person and just
01:38:30
Speaker
pull them over and put them in a quick pin, and then the ref is just totally oblivious the whole time and maybe gets one count instead of two or three. Maybe I'm a little forgiving. I don't know. I thought it was a good matchup. It just wasn't a good match. Yeah, yeah. That's a fairly good way of putting it. I think there's potential to this.
01:38:51
Speaker
much like the Doom LOD match earlier it doesn't feel like you actually get to see everything this match could be yeah for me the match got pretty good but it definitely did not start that way it's a really really slow start there's a lot of stalling a lot of joking around
01:39:08
Speaker
I said, I don't know if they were going for a character bit, but Rick doesn't do much more than goof around in this match up until the ending. Scott, for his part, got to show off some interesting moves again, and he made a good face imperil once the match turned against the Steiners. And once the match reached that section, it kept moving for the most part. Bear hugs accepted. It got almost comical, though, how often Rick ended up accidentally distracting the refs so the Simones could do something nefarious. It's true. Yeah.
01:39:34
Speaker
There was some good action to be had here, and it got pretty entertaining near the end, but I found it tough to watch until it got there. Too slow to start, too much goofing around, and too much focus on the rough distractions. It was a really disappointing match to me. This was coloring the show badly as a whole for me. After watching this one, I was just like, oh, this is kind of what I was afraid of. Things starting at this point to really like tilt downward. So.
01:40:24
Speaker
I was feeling down after this match.
01:40:25
Speaker
and then they lose via dq to a team that was pretty much an afterthought up until they're put in the tournament yeah and fortunately is not much more than after that after the tournament so it's kind of weird that they're the ones that get the victory over them yeah it's kind of like why can't you just have the steiner's win i guess for the scores really is is the answer to that question you can't have them just have two strong victories or they have
01:40:51
Speaker
it's fifteen points the first one so they'd be at fifty five points which is close to insurmountable so uh... right so you do have to do something with them but it is it does feel kind of weird just how it happens yeah I could see if you reversed it and Doom had the DQ victory over them that would sort of keep their feud going and not give them the size of victory over them I can see that yeah and it's going on team which nothing against them but they weren't a major factor in the company at this point
01:41:21
Speaker
I kind of half wonder if this was just like something close to the planned finish of the Steiner vs. Skyscrapers match, and they just kept the general idea of it. Could be. Yeah, so I don't know. At this point, you said that you felt the show was starting to go downhill. Do you think that that has to do with the formatting of the show? It is eight matches.
01:41:55
Speaker
I think there's a certain number of tag matches that you can do before I start really, really feeling the tag formula. And yeah, we've definitely reached that point where I'm like, I can predict at a certain point what's going to happen next in a tag match because they're all using the basic tag match. And aside from the Steiner's versus LOD one that kind of changed it up a little bit or had it more fluid, it's just kind of at a certain point, you're just like, okay, he's gonna get in trouble here.
01:42:04
Speaker
Is it too much?
01:42:25
Speaker
okay nope he's gonna get cut gonna get cut off gonna get cut off gonna get cut off uh... okay now he's gonna make your dis you did
01:42:34
Speaker
With them not doing any gimmicks stuff, I was really starting to feel the tag side, especially. Yeah, you need gimmicks to mix it up. Or you need teams that are just very, very different. A strong team like, say, Public Enemy could do that. Don't make me hurt you. Don't make me hurt you. Well, I was talking more on just the show in general. I tried to think of it as a meal, a seven-course meal, where the mood of versus flair is an appetizer, because it's only two minutes long.
01:43:05
Speaker
at this point you have all these big flavors and you've had all these special things that at this point like you're like alright I've done all these mental flips and loops and everything and I put all these matches together in my head alright at this point is am I start to mix these seven courses that are in front of me and you know I hope there's something still tasty yeah out there so I'm just saying like you've
01:43:31
Speaker
There's a lot of new nuance, but at this point you're just so saturated with these match-ups that I think even though there's still great stuff to come, you're kind of worn down at least mentally or drained.
01:43:45
Speaker
I think I would have been feeling better if this match had been better still, but I still would have been, like you were saying, kind of at a point where I'm like, man, there's a lot of matches on this show.
01:44:05
Speaker
the first match was everyone getting out of the ring and going to the finish something. But they got in the ring first and then went out. Yeah, yeah. That's the signal first. I think that kind of is just how it's worked, yeah. It's very formulaic, yeah. The signal for when you go to the closing sequence is everyone gets in the ring. What you do from there can vary, but everyone gets in the ring and then what's going on? Close line or this or that, yeah. Yeah. There's some better versions of it and some lesser versions of it, but you start recognizing it as all kind of the same thing. Yeah.
01:44:35
Speaker
Our 10th match is Lex Luger versus the Great Muta. Muta has not fixed his face paint and there's little left. Luger is still selling the leg and walks gingerly down the ramp. Nice touch. Even looks hard for him to get through the ropes. The doubting, worried look on his face speaks volumes. Luger does not think he can win.
01:44:57
Speaker
They also make a point in commentary that he doesn't normally use the stepskin at the ring as well. Yeah, yeah. He's very careful getting in. Yeah, it's a very nice approach, I thought. Luger tries to use his power, but Muta clearly notices the injured leg and discusses it for a moment with Gary Hart. Luger gets a few good hits, but his leg goes out on the leapfrog. And it begins.
01:45:19
Speaker
Look at their baby. I'm focused on the leg. I can't go this. Right here. He is in. Good tacking. Man, I'm in. Luna comes down on the leg. Here's Nick Patrick running home. Just way back when he back. Russell Warr in 90. Yes, he is. And right back to that leg again. Hands free elbow.
01:45:48
Speaker
What's up?
01:46:11
Speaker
Muta systematically takes Lex Luger's leg apart for the next several minutes. He lands hard kicks, he wrenches on the leg, he grabs knee holds, he puts on a single leg crab, he turns that into an inverted Indian deathlock. He focuses absolutely entirely on Luger's leg. Luger can do absolutely nothing to defend himself.
01:46:30
Speaker
He can barely even stand with the aid of the ropes, and that only until Muta lands a single kick again to knock him down for more abuse. Luger's rare bits of offense, Jarrah nicely notes that he's having to stay low and can't use his power because he can't stand, are interrupted fast, and he limps everywhere, leans on the ropes, crawls along the ground, begs for moments of mercy, and even very nicely stumble runs on whips to the ropes.
01:46:55
Speaker
A larger comeback in the later match gets some actual cheers from the crowd, and let's remember for a moment that the crowd spent most of his prior matches hurling abuse at him. Muta stops it with a spin kick and a great drop kick, but Lugar hurls himself at Muta for a great clothesline to keep going.
01:47:11
Speaker
His leg still gives him trouble as he fights, and Muta gets a sunset flip. Luger tries to grab the ropes to stop himself from going over, but ref Nick Patrick stops that with a wonderfully dramatic kick. It's one of my favorite spots in wrestling because it's so stupid.
01:47:30
Speaker
Luger escapes and manages a power slam, then signals for the rack. He starts to try to lift Muta, but stops and tries to get Patrick's attention. The camera misses it, but JR tells us later that Gary Hart was distracting Patrick and Luger was trying to get his attention again. Luger turns around right into Muta's mist, but Patrick sees it and calls for the bell. Luger wins by DQ and gets 10 points. Muta is done with 0 points and Luger is done with 35.
01:47:59
Speaker
I liked it. It was a very hard-hitting and loud match. That was a short summary of the match. I really liked Luger's commitment to the character and the selling because it carried over from the previous match.
01:48:16
Speaker
what do you need maybe the point why they could appear for so late in the match oh yeah yeah it so they can then go into this and that you can sell an arm is it's easier to work around all arms okay for a second where is it if you could like you got a really good way you have to come for me he said you have to crawl the great bit where he's been kicked a bunch of times in the rough as soon as it once again the match and he you see like he's babies thinking about it yet
01:48:42
Speaker
I appreciated that his super Luger selling, as funny as it can be, really actually helps the match in a lot of ways not just for our enjoyment as sort of a silly sort of thing because it really does build up mood as kicks as being both precise and extremely dangerous.
01:49:01
Speaker
he keeps kicking the laying his second leg and lugar make sure everyone in the far back row help people in different cities probably tell he's he's like that
01:49:14
Speaker
some poor cosmonaut go back to that uh... sailors and ships at sea uh... yes yeah some poor cosmonaut is distracted while he's trying to fix a lens because he hears Luger yelling that's interesting because yeah he said that he gets like actual face sort of compassion from the crowd he seemed like he's legitimately in trouble they should be eating it up that this guy who's been cocky and posing and yelling at them he's getting some up and but he does it so well that they almost go why it's just bad for this guy
01:49:41
Speaker
Yeah, there's an interesting transition halfway through the match. Around the time that Muta puts the Indian Deathlock on, they're cheering Muta. They're really glad to see Luger hurting. Then around, I don't know, a couple minutes after that, I started to hear people say, come on, Luger. Yeah, yeah, I heard that. And he's just like, wow, something's changed here. He's done such a performance of injury that he's earned sympathy for himself from a crowd that hated his guts. Yeah.
01:50:12
Speaker
Yeah, and Muta, it looks like he's torturing him. I mean, like, he's playing with him. And so there might be some sympathy or, you know, I don't want to say it's pity, pity cheering, but at the same time, they do want to see him, you know, not be in pain. Yeah, yeah. I think you're right on that. It's like Muta is so vicious going after him that you come around to me like, oh man, he's just like enjoying this. And you stop being okay with
01:50:41
Speaker
Luger being hurt. Oh.
01:50:44
Speaker
I didn't wish this on him. Yeah. Right. Not even he deserves that. Yeah. And I have a new favorite like submission hold or whatever. What's the thing? Like a reverse in the- They call it inverted Indian death lock. The one where he like folds himself backwards over him and puts a chin lock on while his legs are wrapped up. Yes. That was a really cool hold. Yeah. I think it shows off his flexibility not only as in what he can do, but I mean actual literal flexibility. Yeah, definitely.
01:51:14
Speaker
Yeah, so he's doing Hapkido and doing all kinds of other things, and I think it highlighted Muda a lot.
01:51:21
Speaker
And I enjoyed it, but at the same time, they work really well. It's a little weird to see that vicious tormenting side of where he's just freaking out, trying to do the Lakatas and stuff just to get Luger to back into the corner and hug the turnbuckle for your life. And so I think it was a good interaction for me. I don't see the point of just getting disqualified at the end.
01:51:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think the idea there, it doesn't come off right, but I think the idea there is that Muta is trying to spray him with the mist while the ref's back is turned, and that will give him the win.
01:52:01
Speaker
But Luger successfully calls Patrick's attention just before that happens. So Patrick turns around and sees the missed spray spot. But yeah, because the camera angle is not ideal, we pretty much miss everything that made that spot make sense. So yeah, camera angles are important. Like him, I do take a little issue with the Deque. I understand when you get through watching replay and you figure out what they're going for.
01:52:29
Speaker
The story of that is pretty interesting and obviously it builds up to Luger not having an overwhelming point lead for the final match, but yeah, how sudden that is still disappointing. Yeah, yeah. Now, is Muda supposed to be a heel? Yes. Okay. He's solidly a heel. It's just the crowd's treating him at first like a face because he's beating the ever-loving crud out of Lex Luger, who they've hated until they decide, oh my gosh, this is going too far.
01:52:59
Speaker
Well, it would have been better. Like I thought it, when I saw it, I was like, well, maybe he's, you know, it's towards the end of that 15 minute. This is one of the matches that didn't end like at right at the last seconds. You know, like a lot of the other ones, mood is only the other one only had two minutes, but I thought it was, it would be better if it was during a pin because it looks like Luger's getting back into the action and you know, he's either ignoring his injury or making a turnaround.
01:53:24
Speaker
Even better if Muda was like getting pinned and he sprayed him in the face. I could see that, yeah, like a desperation move. You're not gonna get 20 points, you know, like I'm, it's my last match, I'm gonna limit you from going forward. Luger looks like he's going to win and Muda doesn't want that. Right. If he gets DQ'd, he costs Luger some points anyway.
01:53:45
Speaker
Maybe I'm reading into it too much. No, I think it kind of works for me the way that it happened. It's just, I think if I'd actually seen all the stuff that JR talks about on camera, I would have been okay with it because it'd be Luger in an odd way overcoming Mira's attempt to cheat. But yeah, just with the camera missing 90% of what you needed to make that spot make sense, it doesn't work too well.
01:54:11
Speaker
Yeah, this was not so much a match as a beatdown. Luger, largely unable to defend himself, just takes repeated leg abuse for the majority of this match. It's the kind of thing that shouldn't work as a match, but it totally did. Muta looked vicious and got really creative in how he punished Luger's legs with some really interesting holds in between his great kicks. Luger did a phenomenal job selling the leg, and he never slipped up on it really at all.
01:54:39
Speaker
He kept it up even when he was getting some spurts of offense. The clothesline he does, I loved. He like actually gives this really dramatic clothesline and he collapses afterwards. Just great moments like that. Like you were saying, I know we give Luger crap for the noises he makes while selling and how over the top it is and all. And there's plenty of that to be heard here. Sure. But it's an excellent, excellent performance right from the entrance all the way to the finish. Luger reacts in every way like someone with a badly injured leg.
01:55:08
Speaker
And that's a type of comment I've only made for one other person over the course of the show, and that's Ricky Steamboat. So when you're selling's being compared to Ricky Steamboat, you're doing a good job. Yeah. Yeah, ending's a bit awkward, but overall, this is such an unusual match, but it's a really good one with great performances by both performers. In space, you can only hear Luger scream. True.
01:55:38
Speaker
Yeah, I want to just like to give this match even more of a compliment, you know, with what I said about the Steiners versus Samoans match and how that dragged me down quite a bit. This popped me right back up. I was just like, oh, this undid all the harm that that match did in the show. I was immediately back into things with this with this performance. That's how strong it was.
01:55:59
Speaker
We had that with, I think it was A4, where it's not so great, and then we have, I think it was Tully and Steamboat. Tully and Steamboat, yeah. Where your notes, notes that time I recall, you had written, thank you Steamboat on the match. Yes, that is correct. Thank you, Luca and Muta. There you go. The 11th match is the Samoans versus the Road Warriors.
01:56:24
Speaker
This is the final match of the tag tournament. So just to go over the scores for a moment, the Steiners have 35, the Road Warriors have 20, Doom has zero, and the Samoans have 30. So the Steiners are in the lead, but not only does it matter who wins this match, it matters how. If the Road Warriors draw or they win by DQ, they're out of the running, while a countout means that they tie the Steiners. If the Samoans draw, they'll tie, while any victory for them is enough to win the tournament.
01:56:54
Speaker
We're told that a tie means that the two tied teams face off once more. After how the Steiner-Simoans match went last time, I'm certainly against a draw here. Don't really want to see that one again.
01:57:08
Speaker
All joking aside, as I mentioned at the start of the show, I really like that concept. The different Finnish types really, really matter here. This is the first time that we get the Road Warriors music in their entrance, and it's Iron Man. It's just blatantly, unquestionably, the guitar riff from Iron Man. It's not even enough to call it a rip-off. It's the actual exact riff. Oh yeah, surely.
01:57:34
Speaker
They didn't hurt Jimmy Hart yet to make soundalikes for everything. Yeah. Soon. Animal and Fatu start, and Fatu quickly lands a pile driver, but Animal just springs right back to his feet and clotheslines Fatu down. Hawk and Sam get in, and Sam yells at the crowd as LOD chants erupt. They brawl, and Hawk gets a back body drop, but Sam answers with an inverted atomic drop, holds on, and muscles through to a suplex variant in an impressive spot. Hawk no-sells a headbutt, and just stares Sam down.
01:58:05
Speaker
Animal in, and he does well against Sam and then Fatu, including a surprisingly casual power slam, until Fatu ducks down as Animal charges in and ends up headbutting him in the crotch. I'm pretty sure that was storyline this time, though Animal does give some very heavy groans, and Fatu sells his head and neck and tags Sam.
01:58:25
Speaker
Sam uses punches, chokes, and rope chokes to keep Animal reeling, but takes time to yell at the crowd before a splash off the rope so Animal dodges and tags Hawk. Hawk quickly hits a nice flying shoulder block for two, but Fatu saves. All four brawl, there's that spot again, and Hawk gets thrown out of the ring, but quickly climbs back up to the top turnbuckle and dives off in a clothesline for the three count.
01:58:54
Speaker
That gives the Road Warriors 20 points, and they win the overall tournament with 40 total versus the Steiners 35. The Steiners immediately hit the ring to congratulate the Road Warriors on the win, so everybody knows it's totally okay to cheer.
01:59:09
Speaker
It was pretty chaotic, definitely hard hitting as well. It's interesting when you've got these pairings where they're willing to go all in on these spots and definitely better than the last match they had. I mean there's not that bizarre long entrance part to it for sure. It's really standard LOD stuff.
01:59:28
Speaker
I kind of wish the Samoan maybe did something to really elevate it or mix form a little bit, but they're just sort of big guy to a different extent than the Steiner's or Doom were. They're just big guys that get thrown around and indicate they hit back on the Elodie. It's not a bad match, but it's not as strong as I hoped it would be. Especially because this is the finale of the tournament.
01:59:54
Speaker
I feel like you really could have somehow could do with the math to where your final is, the Steiner's in the Road Warriors. It makes people wait for the match they really want to see and makes it super important somehow. How you work out the finishes of the numbers get it right.
02:00:09
Speaker
I also know this is the second match of three where a hawk does a clothesline on a person while they're supposed to be not looking, whether they actually are or not. And again, they're the good guys here. Yeah. Also, it is the same finish as the only time they win in the show, which is kind of a shame. Yeah. A hawk leaping off of the turnbuckle is never a shame.
02:00:31
Speaker
Fair enough. It's never a bad thing. Not a bad thing. I like the finish. It's clean-ish. There's pins. Finish is always going to be better than this sort of thing. Sure. You know, there's some good trade-offs. Anytime you can pick up an animal and throw them around, you know, it's going to be pretty impressive. Yeah. Because you'll do the same thing right back to you.
02:00:50
Speaker
The eye gouging was a little rough for me. Samoan's actually at one point, you know, they have him in the corner and just like ripping at his face. So that's the one spot that kind of just is kind of ingrained in my mind. Well, Dupern Mine LED attacked Dusty's eye last time. This would be their comeuppance. Yeah, karma. Yeah, see?
02:01:10
Speaker
Okay. I just wasn't expecting kerbuppets, so not many people do. I don't feel overly positive or overly negative about it. I'm just glad the LED won.
02:01:29
Speaker
The better of two dooms, one. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I'm curious. So we had three matches, obviously, from the Samoans tonight. What's your feeling on where this one ranks? Is this the best of the three, middle, lowest? I say it's the most solid three for me.
02:01:45
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I agree with that. That's that's where I am on it, too I think This is the match where I felt like I got to see a little bit more of the simoans actual skills in the ring They get a few nice spots in I particularly love the like just muscle him over for a suplex Spot both teams put on a pretty good show despite this being the third match for both of them there were some times where I felt like
02:02:08
Speaker
It looked like they were a little tired, but honestly, it could have just been them selling. And either way, it worked with the match's story. The ending did get a little bit muddled. It kind of looked like Animal almost blocked the way as they were setting up for the clothesline spot. But it still ended up working well enough.
02:02:24
Speaker
It does feel like quite a short match for the final match of the tournament. It lacks any kind of epic feel. It just comes off as any other pretty good tag match. And that's not really what you want to be ending a tournament on. I think it is the shortest of the tag match. It probably is, yeah.
02:02:40
Speaker
It definitely feels that way. Which gives it a nice fast pace, but it just feels like, oh, there's not really anything particularly bigger about this match compared to any of the earlier stuff. Definitely the most epic of the tag matches is the Steiner vs. LOD one. I can kind of see why you don't want to end the tournament on that one.
02:03:03
Speaker
And doing it this way gave you some interesting concepts with the point totals and everything. But I can also see, like, if you wanted to end it on the strongest match, that would definitely be it.
02:03:16
Speaker
My only other thought on this one is, since the Samoans can win by counter or DQ, and they still get the overall win that way, it would have been kind of nice to see them try to slip in a quick win by one of those fashions, like trying to sucker the Road Warriors into throwing them over the top rope, or trying to drag one outside and time a win by countout, or something like that.
02:03:36
Speaker
Like a chasing and pulling them back into the wind. Yeah. The Road Warriors winning does feel right. I like that. But I just would have liked to see the Samoans try something to get a win by one of the methods that's open to them that's not open to the Road Warriors. Would have been a nice nod to the show long storyline. But overall, I'm with you guys. This is the strongest of the Samoan matches and it's a respectable tag match.
02:04:00
Speaker
And this may seem weird. I'm confused that they were in the running. I didn't think that they had a real chance with the quality of the first two matches.
02:04:14
Speaker
Mm-hmm what I say and with them being glass minute fill-ins Mm-hmm, but you wonder what the booking was with the skyscraper They've been I kind of that's where I kind of feel like maybe they were actually just slotted in literally with the skyscrapers booking So that the specifics of the matches are a little different But I I would not be at all surprised if it's like the that exact sequence is supposed to happen with the skyscrapers instead Could be or we could have a 16-match show
02:04:38
Speaker
Oh, God. 10 minutes. 10 minutes each.
02:04:47
Speaker
I actually thought the fatigue looked real. There was several points where animal and hawk, you can see their legs wobble a little bit after doing a big move or trying to pick up where in the first two matches that they're in, they're just throwing people around. And Samoan's the same way, still very powerful, but there is some lag between those things. And when they hit the mat, they just sit there for a second. They're just like, okay.
02:05:16
Speaker
Yeah. Either side, I'm just going to relax for at least two or three seconds. I'm going to let them get that two count. I don't think they pointed out on this show, but that is sometimes a strategy thing that the announcers will point out with wrestlers that you've got three seconds. Catch your breath. Actually take those 2.8 seconds and then kick out rather than trying to do it immediately and wearing yours off out more. I can see that being an unspoken part of the storyline here. With the time limit, it makes sense too.
02:05:47
Speaker
Our final match is the end of the singles tournament, and it's Sting versus Ric Flair. Sting has done new face paint to get all dressed up for the main event. Flair didn't bother to robe up, though.
02:06:01
Speaker
So our standings heading into this final match of the singles tournament are Luger at 35, Flare at 25, Muda at 0, and Sting at 20. Luger is in the lead. Flare can win with a pinfall, submission, or countout, and tie with a DQ. Sting can win with a pinfall or submission, or tie with a countout. If Sting and Flare draw, or if Sting wins by DQ, Luger wins the tournament. I appreciate that it's actually a different situation slightly from the end of the tag tournament, the point totals aren't quite the same.
02:06:31
Speaker
Yeah. J.R. builds up the Sting vs. Flare match from the first Clash of the Champions, and says that that made Sting as a superstar. But, he warns, they went to the time limit in that match, and Sting can't let that happen here if he wants to win the tournament. That's true. The two shake hands, mostly missed by the camera,
02:06:54
Speaker
And Sting wins an early exchange, only for Flair to roll out of the ring and break his momentum. Flair gets back in and taunts Sting with a couple woos, but Sting responds with a stinger call that gets monster cheers, then gives Flair a wonderfully smug look.
02:07:11
Speaker
Flair gets the edge as Sting tries a wrist lock and Flair just easily lifts him up on his shoulders and carries him to the turnbuckle, setting him gently down and backing off while wagging his finger at Sting. The crowd reacts big to that and we get dueling chants. They go into a fast running sequence and Sting leaf frogs Flair several times before pressing him up and dropping him. Flair gets angry at that and shoves Sting, who shoves him down in response.
02:07:38
Speaker
Flair rolls out, taking time to calm down. He gets back in and Sting, confused, questions him about the outburst. Flair gets more aggressive, landing hard chops that knock Sting around the ring, so Sting opens up as well and lands great dropkicks and a heck of a clothesline that nearly gets him the win. Flair fakes being hurt to make Sting drop his guard, then kicks him in the gut and chucks him out through the ropes before smashing him to the barricade. The crowd has now pretty solidly decided that they're for Sting.
02:08:06
Speaker
Yeah. Flare snaps Sting's neck across the ropes and does a beautiful delayed suplex to bring him back in. Clearly trying to hurt Sting now, Flare also yells at Patrick for not counting fast enough on pin attempts. Sting finally absorbs a throw into the turnbuckle and lunges out with a clothesline that catches Flare just as he was giving a woo in a great spot.
02:08:27
Speaker
Beautiful timing. Angry, Sting starts no-selling chops as he stalks after Flair. Flair gets to the apron and tries to suplex Sting to the outside of the ring, but Sting blocks it and suplexes Flair into the ring instead for another close call. Sting gets fired up and quickly leads up to the Stinger Splash and Scorpion Deathlock. Flair lunges for the ropes to break it, then nails a shinbreaker and gets the figure four. Sting lunges for the ropes to break that. Great way to show how familiar they are with each other and how serious these moves are.
02:08:57
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Sting's leg is hurting, so Flair lands the kicks and knee drops to it. There's a smooth, complicated mat wrestling sequence that ends with Sting bridging out of a pin and whipping into a backslide for two. Really well done. Flair keeps damaging Sting's leg, and with 30 seconds left, he goes for the figure four. Buddy gets overconfident, and Sting suddenly rolls him up for the three. Sting gets 20 points and wins the tournament.
02:09:24
Speaker
fireworks go off. Flair gets and stings face, and Arden and Ollie hit the ring. For a moment, it looks like they might be about to beat him down. Arden, in particular, gets seriously scary, beckoning for Sting to come over here, come over here. But Flair shakes Sting's hand, and Arden and Ollie raise his arms in victory, then shake hands as well. My first notice, could this be aiming but good? That's true.
02:09:50
Speaker
I mean, unless they're like some sort of grievous injury, I can't imagine these two having a bad match. Yeah. You have to go out of their way to try to do it. They definitely have chemistry together as this match in future matches will show. It's clear why they come together. Sting is his natural babyface and flair. There's an interesting arc throughout the match where he starts out as a respectful face but gets annoyed as he can't get the victory. Like it's really getting to him that he can't push Sting away.
02:10:18
Speaker
I joke that one day Luke Flair will learn to not lean forward so much when he does the figure four. So as you will see in later shows, he loses a lot of matches by just leaning forward is a bit too much and gets rolled up.
02:10:30
Speaker
Yeah, I like that they kind of portray it in this one is like I said, it feels like he gets overconfident. Oh, yeah. Where he's like, Oh, stings hurt. I can take my time on this or he doesn't because in the Luger match, he whips it on there really fast. Oh, yeah. In this batch, he kind of like grabs the leg pauses for a moment. Like I think he actually maybe even does a woo or something like that. And then just goes very like confidently for it.
02:10:53
Speaker
This one a few times, he doesn't do the slap and or chop sting while he's down the hole, though. I kept waiting for that to happen when he had the figure of four, so the thing could power up, but they hadn't done that spot yet. No. Soon. He got it with Luger last year, though. That's true, that's true, yeah. But you know, it's a really good match. It's a great story where both of them get more aggressive throughout it as time ticks down.
02:11:16
Speaker
Flair is definitely more of a heel-ish way, whereas stings are just being more aggressive to try and win a match. Flair is definitely trying, like I said, it's definitely not a hurt sting. The ending part where R. and Ollie pull him in and graduate him is definitely interesting for the long-term story as well. I'm replaying the match in my head. It was almost like flirtatious.
02:11:38
Speaker
You got two big personalities and they're clearly having some fun. They have great chemistry, like you said, especially the, you know, you're not going to do anything, you know, walking back and then the flex and the strut. When Steen went back at him after being slapped so many times, I was just grinning, you know, it was a good change of pace.
02:11:59
Speaker
I was impressed with Rick Flair's athleticism in this. You know, he did a lot of stale drops. He, you know, lifted him up by the knee and came down and he was clearly doing a little bit more than he usually does in a typical match. So I think it was a great finale.
02:12:17
Speaker
It's one of the few times, I'm not saying that Rick Flair is a bad sport, but it's not characteristic of him to shake someone's hand at the end of the match after losing, and then having that resounding approval. You've seen Rick as super heel, super bad guy for the past several years, so seeing him flirt with that, but not actually go to it.
02:12:40
Speaker
and honor his challenger after the match is kind of an unusual thing for him. And I think it lifts both their characters up. I mean, acknowledgement and having Arne and Noli there to chime in on that is nice. I didn't have the same feel that you did, though. I knew that they were going to do that for some reason.
02:13:01
Speaker
I didn't like feel as like threatened. Yeah, I felt massive tension there. And I honestly kind of still felt massive tension there even once they raised his arms. Like it feels like things are okay for now. We're all tense. We're all not sure what to think about this. But yeah, you won the tournament. So we're going to honor you for a type of type of feeling. It was an interesting ending to the match, I thought.
02:13:31
Speaker
really, really exceptional match here. Sting versus Flair is, like you said, always going to be pretty reliable. But especially considering both of these guys have been in two prior matches, they did a heck of a job here, and they gave us a great final match for the show. The show's been kind of up and down, but this definitely ended it on a high note.
02:13:50
Speaker
I particularly liked the tension about Sting and Flair's friendship. Flair increasingly lets his frustration and anger rule him, and Sting is confused and hurt by the disrespect that Flair starts giving him. By the end of the match, Flair's trying to interesting, willing to go that far even against a friend. It kind of reminded me a bit of his development throughout the match with Dusty and Starrcade84. They don't start as close together as Flair and Sting do, but you kind of got that same feeling of going from I'm trying to win the match to
02:14:20
Speaker
I'm gonna do anything to win this match. Yeah. Sting seems to start out expecting, like, a friendly competition, kinda... He's up for it, he's enjoying, like, you know, trying to show each other up or things. But he ends up clearly angry as he sees the dark side of Ric Flair coming back. Sting's moves get a lot more speed and impact as the match goes on. And it's not that he's trying to hurt Flair himself, it's just that he's angry at this betrayal by a friend and it's just, like, making him put more into this. Yeah.
02:14:50
Speaker
The two worked excellently together, and they had several fast-paced, complex sequences that they pulled off smooth as can be. The only complaint I think I can level against it is they go back quite a few times to the whole, um, grab a headlock, whoops, you whipped me to the ropes, now one of us hits a shoulder block spot. There's so much to this match that I can forgive them for needing to use that transition a bit much.
02:15:13
Speaker
One more thing to note, just like last time, I felt like maybe it would have been nice to have a little something from the show long story here as well, that Luger's in the lead, and he needs this match to end in certain ways for things to work for him. I get why the Steiners wouldn't interfere, obviously, being faces, but Luger's a heel, so if Sting gets DQ'd, he wins. It'd be kind of interesting to see him come down and try to make that happen. Not that I'd want it to actually happen, but it'd just be a nice touch.
02:15:42
Speaker
No, I think if it wasn't the last match of the night, it would have set up such a unique storyline. Even if he didn't interfere and Lex just won by default, now you have a new storyline where they're both against Lex, and he can really gloat and really become the worst heel ever in that era. Now you can have both Sting and Flair be faces if they want to.
02:16:09
Speaker
I can see there's definitely some story potential there, yeah. If it was the second to last and they did the tag last, I think you could still end on a high note. I get you. And then after the tag match is the final match, then you could have a locker room brawl and start this whole off, like people are just leaving excited and teased. I could see that, yeah. But the way this has worked out, keep it. Yeah.
02:16:35
Speaker
I do have to admit, Luker does have an excuse for not coming down to try to interfere in the match or anything, but he did get kicked in the leg roughly 800 times and then got mysterious mist sprayed in his face, so he's probably busy backstage getting several different varieties of medical treatment. I wonder if he Luker sells at the doctor's office.
02:16:53
Speaker
How's it feel on a scale of whoa to whoa? But yeah, this is like was modern day WWE. They would be having the Flair Sting match, and they cut to the back and Luger be sitting there like with a towel over shoulder, staring awkwardly at sideways at TV. Oh yeah, yeah, you gotta have the match pinned out. The weird angle of watching the television. Yeah. Never straight ahead. It's always a side angle. In any case, excellent match. Great way to end the tournament. Great way to end the night. Yeah.
02:17:24
Speaker
We go to the stage with Gordon Soli, who's with the Road Warriors. Soli calls it an exciting and grueling night. I can agree with both of those.
02:17:44
Speaker
Thank you very much, Jim, and may I just say one of the most exciting and grueling nights of wrestling I've ever witnessed in my career, standing with me now, are the tag team champions, the Road Warriors gentlemen, congratulations. Atlanta, you now know who the Iron Men are, the Road Warriors. We come out to that tune every stick and match.
02:18:12
Speaker
And we lived up to it every speaking match. And tonight, we did it again for you and for us. You know, Sunday Garden Solely, the most die hard fans in the wrestling world are right here in Atlanta, Georgia. Thank you so very much, gentlemen. I'm going to try and get the winner of a single tournament over here in just a moment.
02:18:42
Speaker
Precious foul, Ellering, of course, manager of the road, Warriors, and as soon as Sting makes it on the site, well, I will be ready to go. Sting is making his way. You know some guard solely, the average football player maybe plays 11 minutes in an entire game. We're out here busting out much for no less than 30 minutes at a time. If we aren't real athletes, then I don't know what is.
02:19:09
Speaker
Thank you so very much, not here from the state, and the UNWA world UNWA champion, Blake Carter. Let me say one thing, never humbled in the truth, but I've spent a thousand times to be the man you gotta be the man, I do the the man. Congratulations, Blake.
02:19:38
Speaker
Oh well. That's really a WCW way to end the show. This was the best ending I could have ever hoped for.
02:19:46
Speaker
I don't know how they screwed this up so badly. It's like so many flubs in such a short time. They cut off the Road Warriors to talk to Sting even though Sting's not there yet. Then they cut to the credits early while the Road Warriors are talking again. Then they start off the credits music, so we barely hear Flair delivering his famous to-be-the-man-you've-gotta-beat-the-man line for the first time at a Starrcade. And then they actually end the show before Sting, the winner of the tournament and the focus of the night's story, even gets to speak.
02:20:13
Speaker
Yeah. What the heck? It's amazing. The only way it could have been better is if more pyrotechnics went off. Just like at random scare everyone on stage. It's absolutely beautiful. I have waited for a moment like this. This is a WCW moment.
02:20:35
Speaker
It's a moment where it all comes together into something that is such an epic failure that it turns right back around and becomes awesome. I'm so happy, and that's not sarcasm. Yeah, don't get me wrong. I love it when WCW gets things right, but wow, when they get it this wrong, it is an absolute joy to watch.
02:20:55
Speaker
As for the actual promos, I mean, what I could hear of flares was good. The Road Warriors cut probably the most generic promo in wrestling, they're just saying they're tough and praising the fans. And Sting cut a promo rivaled only by the famous to-be-or-not-to-be speech from Hamlet, and it's brilliance, I assume, since I didn't get to hear it. What are you saying? It must have been great. Yeah. Poor Gordon Soli.
02:21:18
Speaker
I enjoyed the Legion of Doom promo. They clearly didn't need the mics and they were really into it and I thought it was great that they thanked the fans before thanking themselves. Yeah. Al, any information on storylines coming out of the show?
02:21:37
Speaker
Doom, who obviously went zero out of three for their show. They get pretty bad luck for their first few months. Their manager leaves them for not winning matches. Then they lose a match against Steiner's, where they challenge the titles, but with their mask on the line, and they fail. So now they're unmasked. So now everyone knows they're watching the butchered, which would be really bad, except they then go on to win the titles later that year and have a dominant run for the rest of 1990.
02:22:06
Speaker
I gotta hit rock bottom before you climb back to the top, I guess. Always darkest before the dawn and all that. Yeah, exactly. Always darkest before the doom. There you go. If you fall into a pit, you're already buried. Okay. Is that your bumper sticker on your car?
02:22:26
Speaker
So the Road Warriors' future is interesting. They would go on a few of the skyscrapers, although the line of skyscrapers they fight at the next show in a Takawa street fight would not be against either of the skyscrapers that they were fighting before the show. The line of changes two times before their final match up to blow out the few between the skyscrapers. That's hilarious.
02:22:48
Speaker
I'll go into more depth when we get to watch some of this, but it's pretty amazing how this seemingly unstoppable story of these two untouchable teams follows apart so quickly and so that's a really good fashion. As for the Samoans, they do not do much of note. They no-show an event, I forget which one it is, and they leave that summer. Oh, okay.
02:23:08
Speaker
Now you think going out of this, the Rory won the tournament, and they're going to be the next person to challenge the Steiner Brothers. You would think so, yeah. So at Wrestle War, the very next year they have in January, the tag title match between the Steiner Brothers and Arne and Ollie Anderson. Well, I'm happy about that anyway. Yeah, they don't seem to ever challenge the Steiner for a pay-per-view at all in 1990. That's disappointing, but at least the Andersons get a chance. Yeah, it's just a little weird that's where that goes.
02:23:36
Speaker
Lex Luthor would go on to challenge Flair in multiple talent matches due to issues that have him with Sting. Sting would be put into the Four Horsemen. They realize that he could beat Flair, so he's a true talent for the title. And it is that he's not a threat to us if he's part of us. However, Sting ultimately does still want him with a full title, and they're happy with that as they kick him out of the group. And they're replacing him with Sid Vicious and Barry Windham, who comes back again.
02:24:04
Speaker
as for great mood he would go on to lose the t.v. title and guess which month january yes yes it returns to our Anderson a we're going to come up with a couple more matches then we'll leave the company entirely before the early part of 1990 is over how he will be back to start in 1990 in different fashion overall thoughts on stark eight eighty nine
02:24:32
Speaker
It's definitely a good show. Overall, it's a fairly easy watch. All the matches that are strong are very strong. There's not really much middle of the road stuff. The worst shows for me are really the middle of the road shows because the good parts are okay, not great. And then when it gets bad, it gets really bad. So they're the hardest to sit through. It's like watching a boring movie versus a really bad movie.
02:24:56
Speaker
you want a great movie, an epic classic, Ben Hurst, or you want to watch Ed Wood.
02:25:03
Speaker
the two extremes you don't want to watch and it's okay and you forget about it yeah that's kind of thing with wrestling for me this one definitely has peaks and valleys the singles match is definitely with a stronger part for me they had clear stories and somewhat different stories where the tag talent matches attending opponents out never really told much of a story other than I need to beat you would get points and that's really all they said
02:25:30
Speaker
It's definitely interesting that in both cases the champion, the top champion that is, is in the winner of the tournament.
02:25:36
Speaker
Because that definitely sets you up with more stories. Yeah. Just in this case, they didn't set up the story you would think, which is the Road Warriors Challenge of the Stiners. If you just have the champion win, one, that's predictable, and two, you haven't built anyone up. Exactly. So yeah, letting another team win and letting another singles wrestler win gave you a little bit of a buildup for someone that wasn't already at that top peak.
02:26:02
Speaker
But overall, I think it's a pretty strong show. There are definitely low points towards the middle when you realize attack formers, not that exciting. And then when the matches themselves get less interesting, they're hard to sit there because there's something interesting to them. But overall, it's a strong show. Okay. John thoughts.
02:26:21
Speaker
I really like the idea of the point system. It shows that they're trying to do different things. It solves a lot of problems where traditionally you don't see the main event until like the last minute. And here you get to see your favorite character or multiple characters at least three times in one night. So if you came just for Sting and Sting was the final match like it was here, you'd wait all night.
02:26:48
Speaker
Now you get to showcase that same person three times, or you get to see your favorite tag team match three times. But that said, when we hit match seven or eight, just because the number of matches, not necessarily the length or the quality or anything, I was getting a little bit of fatigue. The last two or three matches brought me out of that, but you know, there was a time where I was like, all right, great. Yeah. Come on DQ.
02:27:19
Speaker
Or pen or something that if it wasn't every single one with the exception of flair and mooda if they weren't all in that 13 to Some of them were 12, but they pretended like there were 15 Yeah, if there was more varied in the length not only would they have time for interviews at the end but Yeah, supposedly I think it would have been a little bit better and
02:27:44
Speaker
But they definitely get a lot of points for doing that because I think it's a great way to give the fans what they want. As far as the performances, I liked that there was some, it seemed like character development or you could really see how they interacted with different people in the ring and what strategy they would use. So it added a little bit of variety. Obviously, if you're going up against a really technical character, you've got to focus on your strength or try to get that time out or something else along those lines.
02:28:14
Speaker
It was interesting. Okay. For me this felt pretty long. It's actually about the same length as last year, but with 12 matches it felt much longer. I think I just have a limit to how many matches I can process on a single show, and it didn't help that they were all just basic tag and singles matches. Nothing really to break anything up or be different. I did appreciate that they at least alternated types this year.
02:28:42
Speaker
But really, last year I was saying that four tag matches was too much, so this year they did six? Yeah, right? The actual match quality was mostly acceptable to good, but around halfway through the show, I started seriously struggling to maintain interest. Like I said, it didn't help that we then hit the Steiners vs. Samoans match, which was full of stalling and just goofing around. By the time I was through watching that one, I was kind of giving up on this Starrcade.
02:29:07
Speaker
As I mentioned before, Luger vs. Muta helped a lot. They felt different and interesting and had a good strong story thread from earlier in the night. By the time it was over, I was in a good mood again. The Samoans vs. the Road Warriors was pretty good if a quick match to close out the tag tournament, and Sting vs. Flair was an excellent end to the show with a strong story, so I ended up feeling good about the show as a whole. But man was it worth getting there.
02:29:31
Speaker
There's not a lot to speak of otherwise on this show, which probably helped keep it to the same length as last year, but it also hurt any sense of larger-than-life feel. We don't get interviews except at the end, and let's face it, we don't really get those either. No.
02:29:45
Speaker
Not that I want this show to be longer, but I would have liked maybe even a few seconds from the wrestlers involved in the lead-up to their matches. They could even do it as, I don't know, like a picture-in-picture thing during entrances, since it's not like there was much of anything going on with those anyway this year. The wrestlers mostly don't even get their music.
02:30:08
Speaker
The announced team, some questionable comments aside, did benefit the show. It was a good idea to vary it up a bit, with JR as the reliable heart of the team and Cornette and Funk chiming in on their areas of expertise. It made for an interesting atmosphere, and JR worked well with both. Their discussions mostly added depth to the matches and helped bring the night's stories together. That's important since the show really didn't use any other tools to do so.
02:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Overall, I think there's matches from this show I could recommend, but I don't think I'd recommend watching the thing the whole way through. There's too many similar matches, too little story content, and a very business-like kind of flow. Just match to match to match to make the show underwhelming. The single side comes off way better than the tags for the most part. I again felt like I could feel the tag formula more as the night went on,
02:31:01
Speaker
But the show felt dull and unimportant until those final few matches. The ending, though, is well worth your time if you love production errors as much as I do.
02:31:11
Speaker
That was absolutely wonderful. I can see why the tag portions fall a little short. You definitely are able to focus on one thing with one-on-one. And if you like one character out of each tag team, you know, you're only getting them on the mat for half the time. Yeah, true. If there was less tag ones and maybe there were 20 minutes, hey, it might have been a better show. Yeah.
02:31:37
Speaker
You're mentioning to do a three person tournament or an in three team.
NWA Super Shows and Starrcade's Experimentation
02:31:41
Speaker
I'm interesting you had less matches maybe a lengthier ones and less complicated math for sure. Yeah.
02:31:47
Speaker
the early shows like 83, 386, so many things, 87, they were NWA super shows. It was, we're NWA, here's our top champion, and here's a random guy from some territory, we'll have to order the title here one week, or one show rather, then we'll have the Western Day Heritage Championship by another show, had the name drop that once. And they also mixed up the match variety on those,
02:32:13
Speaker
that way because different territories might always like to in cage matches so this person from this in the way branch would do a cage match as a tag match or singles match in this form would do straight singles or mixed tags we started to see a little more variety towards the end when he had a six-man tag for once
02:32:30
Speaker
This one was definitely, here's the top stars of the WCW slash TPS, and we're gonna showcase them in this small microcosm of a show. Yeah. That doesn't really feel like it's the biggest show of the year.
02:32:44
Speaker
If this was a Great American Bash, you'd go, okay, this is a middle-of-the-year show to establish these stories going forward. Whereas it's supposed to be Starrcade. It should be the Bigwick Flare match. Someone's christening, someone's downfall. Yeah. Some team coming up. It feels kind of weird that they get all experimental with Starrcade, of all things. Yeah. Right? Because at this point, they have an early show. It changes what it was.
02:33:09
Speaker
Sometimes it's Russell war. Sometimes it's the ill-fated bunkhouse stampede and they have a middle of the year show. The great American bash is strongly established and they just started Halloween havoc. So it's not like they only have one show and they own one place to experiment. They have other places and to where they pick this one. Yeah. You know, I was surprised. I mean, Muda was new to me, but you know, usually they, they showcase someone even newer. You know, there wasn't a new star.
02:33:38
Speaker
The closest you'd have would be Doom, maybe? Because Doom debuts at Halloween Havoc. But they're showcased via losing all their matches, so... And it's a good showcase. Yeah. But they're the newest to think overall, yeah. Fair enough. That's not a debuting person or someone you always see one from is one territory, yeah.
02:33:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's a very different Starrcade. Like you were pointing out, the earlier ones are all kind of the, if not the focus of the full year, at least like there's a bunch of storylines all converging here. And this one, I mean, all the storyline stuff you gave beforehand, really the only thing that feels like it matters intensely to the show is the Sting and Flare
Sting and Flare Storyline Impact
02:34:17
Speaker
stuff. Yeah. And that's great, but you don't have that feeling of everything's converging at Starrcade that we got on the earlier years.
02:34:28
Speaker
uh... match the night in the p now you want to go first so i i watched a couple matches after it's in the show before did really help narrow down between them so it really did come down to the top singles matches much like the these are doomed steiner's match i just really liked the more singular focus of the singles matches i nearly picks uh...
02:34:54
Speaker
Sting and Flare as being the top match because they have the most exclusive finish and they have the big dramatic last second thing. But upon rewatch, I got a lot more as a surprise out of Luger versus Flare. Okay. Really seeing Lex Luger go full Cocky Heel and embrace it. All these little touches, like I said, pulling the hair, poking the eyes, yelling at the crowd. All these things he did really showed me elevation of him.
02:35:20
Speaker
And even though there's no solid finish to it, there's a draw. I did like their performance, there's extra things there. Take nothing away from the Sting-Lugar match. I think what, why this one helps me is because, like I said before, Sting is so likable. Louie didn't have to do as Super Mega Heal on him. Whereas he really had to prove himself against a fairly untested of the face Flair. And to really try and match Flair's Uber Heal from previous shows. I think he did that.
02:35:50
Speaker
Yeah, I can definitely see that. You get a lot out of that match, and like you're saying, Luger has to put on one heck of a show there. So yeah, that's an exceptional match. It's very, very good.
02:36:03
Speaker
Picking MVP came down to me between the four singles stars for the same reasons I mentioned. Unfortunately for me, Muda and Flair, as good as they overall, are out of the running because they had their one match super short. Well, it's decent, it just came much out of it. So they only have two really strong longer performances. Sting and Luger have three. Sting really did shine a lot, but Luger going above and beyond and really transitioning his character impressed me enough that I gave MVP.
02:36:33
Speaker
All right, Luger MVP. Yeah, excellent. Yeah, he puts on an exceptional performance tonight, so I can totally see that. John? Oh, I'll tell you right now, as I'm saying this, I'm not really certain on my MVP, but like you, I did enjoy
02:36:55
Speaker
The Lex Luger and Great Muda. I didn't like the finish, you know or anything but I enjoyed the athleticism Luger did a wonderful job making sure that Muda looked good and Muda Did some great mind mind tricks on Lex and it was just fun to watch it was different than any other match of the night and
02:37:17
Speaker
I think that there was a nice interaction between them. And the only other one is just the way the final match of the night was Sting and Flair. I enjoyed their personalities, the interaction, the charisma that happened between them. But that said, I'm going to go with Lex Luger and the Great Muda as my favorite match just because I really want to give Muda some sort of recognition.
02:37:45
Speaker
And Lex, because I think that the person that I want to choose as my favorite would be Sting still. Because I like the acknowledgement at the end. He had strong matches all night long, like Lex did. And come on, Sting.
02:38:03
Speaker
Yeah, sure. He's pretty much always a safe bet, isn't he? Yeah. Right. And, you know, I enjoyed that Lex Luger and Great Muda match quite a bit, but not enough to give it to Lex. Lex performance was great, but I still think Stings, if you factor in all the matches, I think they came up a little bit higher.
02:38:23
Speaker
Okay.
Luger vs. Muta Match Review
02:38:24
Speaker
This is going to be pretty funny because, yeah, I was a bit down on the overall show, but there's some great matches in the mix. Sting versus Luger and Luger versus Flare were both great. Sting versus Muta and Sting versus Flare were both great. Starters versus the Road Warriors, as I mentioned, was so fun that I actually forgot several times I was supposed to be taking notes. But like you, John, my match of the night is Lex Luger versus the great Muta.
02:38:49
Speaker
It's just such a different match. It's not the most technically brilliant on the show. The ending's flubbed a little thanks to the cameraman, but it felt unique like you were saying. It felt like that right from the entrances. The visible worry on Luger's face as he comes out for the match, fully aware that he's probably utterly screwed. The absolute beating that Muda delivers.
02:39:09
Speaker
I mean, Luger gets next to no offense for most of the match. He just takes hit after hit after hit, just about turns himself faced with a crowd that had been mercilessly taunting him in his two prior matches. Coming right after the signers versus the Samoans, which had me giving up on the show, Luger versus Buda woke me right back up and made me pay attention again. It managed to differentiate itself and it stood out among all the matches. And for that, it earned my match of the night.
02:39:35
Speaker
For my MVP, there's only one man I can name, Sting.
02:39:41
Speaker
Everyone put on multiple performances and some managed good ones even near the end of the show, but all three of Sting's performances tonight were great. He was Mr. Reliable.
02:40:11
Speaker
He proved himself once again as a talented performer who tirelessly gave his all for the show. His great reactions to Flair's increasingly aggressive fighting style in the final match were the icing on the cake. His constantly exciting and energizing performances easily earned him my MVP for the night.
02:40:29
Speaker
And that wraps up our review of Starrcade 89, Future Shock.
Listener Engagement and Podcast Recommendations
02:40:34
Speaker
If you've enjoyed listening to us tonight, you can search for us on Twitter or Facebook as Let's Go to the Ring. Follow us for episode announcements and other show details, and share your own thoughts about the Starrcades as we go through.
02:40:46
Speaker
What was your favorite match and did you favor the singles or tag portion of this show? And please, if you've enjoyed this show, give us a nice review on iTunes and share the show through your favorite social media platforms to help others discover the show. Many thanks to OSW Review for attendance and pay-per-view figures. Before we go, a quick mention of a couple other podcasts.
02:41:07
Speaker
We're all big fans of role-playing games, tabletop or otherwise, and these two are shows that deserve some attention. First off, Storium Arc, a show dedicated to the online role-playing and creative writing game, Storium. Full disclosure here, I'm a former member and still do some of the episode edits.
02:41:23
Speaker
but they have some great discussions on the game and on role-playing or writing in general, and are well worth a listen if that's an area of interest to you. Again, that's Storium Arc. S-T-O-R-I-U-M, space, A-R-C. Second, a D&D fifth edition podcast, also run by a Storium Arc member, Zachary. Companions of the Perception check. Great name.
02:41:46
Speaker
It features discussions on classes and system and story concepts, along with fun actual play sessions. Take a seat at the table with the companions of the perception check and join the adventure. I'll put links into the episode description. This is Bob Moore for Alec Pridgen and John Mullins, signing off. Good night everybody. Happy wrestling. But get some sleep.