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One on One - Becky Eldredge
262 Plays2 years ago
In this episode, Gretchen Crowder interviews Becky Eldredge.
Becky is an Ignatian-trained spiritual director, retreat facilitator, and author of two books: The Inner Chapel (Loyola Press, April 2020) and Busy Lives and Restless Souls (Loyola Press, March 2017). She leads a ministry that offers spiritual direction, resources, and retreats (virtual and in-person) rooted in the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola. Passionate about Ignatian spirituality and teaching people how to pray and discern, Becky draws from over twenty years of ministry experience to help others make room for God in the busyness and invite them deeper in their walk with Christ.
Becky currently lives in Baton Rouge, LA, where she writes and meets with men and women of all ages for monthly spiritual direction and leads people through the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius. She leads days of reflections and retreats for dioceses, parishes, retreats houses and other ministry organizations.
A growing part of her ministry is empowering others to use their gifts and voices to share the wisdom of Ignatian spirituality. In 2020, after eleven years of writing her blog solo, she invited a team of Ignatian writers to join her. The blog is now named Into the Deep. In 2023, Becky founded Ignatian Ministries, a home of accompaniment for all individuals. Ignatian Ministries accompanies people with retreats, resources, community, and more to help them grow deeper in faith and walk boldly with others.
You can find her at:
IgnatianMinistries.org
BeckyEldredge.com
@beldredge98 and @ignatianministries on social
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If this episode hits home and you feel you have your own story to share, email Gretchen at .
Follow along and contribute to the conversation @lovedasyouarepod on Instagram.
Find more from Gretchen Crowder @gdcrowder as well as at gretchencrowder.com.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
00:00:00
Speaker
So, and welcome back to Loved As You Are, an Ignatian podcast with me, Gretchen Crowder. I'm publishing this episode just a few days before Christmas, even though I recorded this interview back in October.
00:00:13
Speaker
I don't know about you, but the last couple months have been crazy busy for me, finishing up my first semester back in graduate school again, working at my day job, writing and speaking on the side, and raising my three crazy boys. It's been quite a ride, but it has also been a sea of blessings as well. One of the blessings has been all the amazing conversations I have had the opportunity to record, including this one.
00:00:37
Speaker
There's a Greek word kairos, that means the right time or God's time. As I re-listen to this episode with Becky to edit it this week, I realized that a lot of what we spoke about is perfectly timed to the end of one year and the beginning of another. So while you're baking, cleaning, taking a walk to get a little alone time this week, consider listening to this entire episode and then checking out the wonderful resources Becky offers to further your faith in 2024.
00:01:07
Speaker
You have heard about Becky before if you've been listening to this podcast, but here's a little more about her. Becky is an Ignatian trained spiritual director, retreat facilitator, and the author of two books, The Inner Chapel and Busy Lives and Restless Souls. She leads a ministry that offers spiritual direction, resources, and retreats, virtual and in-person, rooted in the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola.
00:01:33
Speaker
Passionate about Ignatian spirituality and teaching people how to pray and discern, Becky draws from over 20 years of ministry experience to help others make room for God in the busyness and invite them deeper in their walk with Christ. Becky currently lives in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where she writes and meets with men and women of all ages for monthly spiritual direction and leads people through the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius.
00:01:58
Speaker
She leads days of reflection and retreats for diocese, parishes, retreat houses, and other ministry organizations. A growing part of her ministry is empowering others to use their gifts and voices to share the wisdom of Ignatian spirituality. In 2020, after 11 years of writing her blog solo, she invited a team of Ignatian writers to join her. The blog is now named Into the Deep. Becky also trains others to give Ignatian retreats.
00:02:25
Speaker
In 2023, Becky founded Ignatian Ministries, a home of accompaniment for all individuals. Ignatian Ministries accompanies people with retreats, resources, community, and more to help them grow deeper in faith and walk boldly with others. You can find the link to Ignatian Ministries in the show notes. This conversation is full of Becky's wisdom, and I know you're gonna love it as much as I did. So, here we go.
00:03:26
Speaker
Becky, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. I think over half of my guests so far were introduced to me by you. And so my introductions are always like, and we were introduced by Becky Eldridge. And so now I have Becky Eldridge actually on the podcast.
Understanding God's Personal Love
00:03:42
Speaker
So yeah, people can actually hear directly from you about your work about this theme of being loved as you are. So
00:03:50
Speaker
It's so great. And I remember that our last and only virtual conversation together was during lockdown where we had our one and only FaceTime live. We did. We did. And only Instagram live. Yeah. So we've already practiced this conversation. It was almost four years ago, but we're good. We can do this again.
00:04:08
Speaker
That's right. Well, I'm glad to be here, Gretchen. Thank you. And it's fun to watch you step into this and to listen to all your guests. It's been neat to watch it unfold. Yeah. And as you know, having as many different perspectives on this idea of being loved as you are, it's just so great to help formulate your own understanding of it. And I hope that those that are listening are hearing that as well, that there's so many different people that know this in so many different ways. And it all comes together to form a really
00:04:38
Speaker
good picture in the end. For sure, because I think God's, you know, expression of love for us, I mean, God's gonna help us come to know we're loved in the unique way we need to be reminded. So it's gonna sound different. Our experience and our understanding of how God loves us is gonna, it's gonna be so personal to each one of us.
Ignatian Ministries and Its Impact
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, well, we look forward to hearing about how this has resonated with you. But first, I know there's been a big launch in the last couple months, because we talked about it on the podcast before it launched and then after it launched. Tell us a little bit about Ignatian Ministries, because this is really a great opportunity for people to engage with the idea of being loved as you are and Ignatian spirituality in a big way. I'd like my listeners to be able to hear from you directly what it is, because I think it really is a place where people can go
00:05:31
Speaker
to continue these conversations after listening to this podcast. Yes, and that you are so much part of too. Ignatian Ministries, Gretchen, has been such a fun surprise by God. And to those who are listening and maybe hearing over the first time, the best way I can describe Ignatian Ministries is it's a home of accompaniment.
00:05:54
Speaker
And, you know, we can be accompanied in all kinds of ways, you know, meaning people just walking alongside each other. Our goal and hope and vision and mission of Ignatian Ministries is coming alongside people to help them know Christ more, to know Him more, love Him more, so that we can follow Him more. I mean, it's really rooted in that grace of the second week of the exercises.
00:06:21
Speaker
And, you know, we are a ministry. I mean, our vision is we feel called to help renew the church through forming people in the Ignatian way of prayer and discernment. And, you know, we live that out in our mission by offering people resources, spiritual direction, retreats, you know, professional development opportunities that
00:06:44
Speaker
are both giving individual tools for themselves in their prayer life and their life with Christ, but also that they can go bring those to other people.
00:06:55
Speaker
And then a growing aspect of Ignatian Ministries, which has again been a really fun surprise, has been the community that's gathered. And so we've got collectives that are forming that are for ministry leaders in the Ignatian tradition. We have a spiritual director one, a retreat facilitator, a pastoral care ministry one.
00:07:15
Speaker
And we're really excited this fall. We are going to be launching just a community, an Ignatian Ministries community, which will be a place, like you said, for more people to gather who are looking for deeper waters of faith. They're really looking to know, you know, am I loved? Do I belong? And how do I?
00:07:37
Speaker
having a community that helps them stay committed to growing deeper in their faith and putting their gifts out to use in the world, right? Who are really looking for the meat. Where is God inviting me to have meaning and purpose to express who I am out in the world and bring my gifts out in the world always for the service of others, right? To help others come to know that they're loved and created by God.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah. And we talked, you know, before we got on about how we spend a lot of time on online with various groups of people. Right. But
00:08:13
Speaker
One of the things Ignatian spirituality says is that we have to meet people where they are. And there are people that are going to come to Ignatian ministries that are active in their parishes and that are at church every Sunday and that are like maybe even have a role within their parishes. There's also going to be people that have been hurt by the church or have fallen away from the church or haven't really figured out which church is the place where they're
00:08:38
Speaker
meant to be and so this ministry really meets people where they're at and tells them that you can start your spiritual journey anywhere and there are people there to walk that journey with you. Yes and always with the hope of inviting people into deeper waters of faith and you know we in no way want to be a church. So in the sense of we're not trying to be a parish or
00:09:05
Speaker
any sort of organized religion in that sense, but really a home, a spiritual home to help people have the tools and the resources to grow deeper. I can think of my own experience as a lifelong Catholic that sometimes I have turned to spirituality centers and retreat houses.
00:09:28
Speaker
more than my parish. I mean, not for the sacraments. I always turn to my parish for sacramental life. But sometimes it's, you know, what I'm looking for, I have found more of the resources that I need at a spirituality center or retreat center because they're the ones that have housed spiritual directors. You know, they're offering silent retreats.
00:09:50
Speaker
And so we did so much discernment on Ignatian Ministries, you know, who are we called to serve? And who are we called to serve? And also who are who is really not our core audience? And we really came to realize God is calling us to serve those who are looking for deeper waters of faith.
00:10:10
Speaker
and who are very involved in parish life. Like you said, they may be leaders in a school, a parish, a diocese, a retreat house, a spirituality center.
Personal and Communal Faith Journeys
00:10:21
Speaker
And they're saying, where is the place that I can come and be fed? So we name it as four audiences that we are called types of group people. One is those longing for more.
00:10:34
Speaker
One is a group of, you know, and we all hit it, it's when life gets really, really hard. And we're kind of grasping for a life raft and saying, where does faith matter right now? What are the tools of faith that I can grab onto in these hard times? We're really called to serve this, to create a, serve the group of people that are looking for a community
00:10:59
Speaker
of people that have, they've been at the faith life for a while that aren't newbies that aren't just starting out, but it's like, Hey, I've been at this and I'm looking for something a little more than I've, I've yet to find. And then this fourth group has, has been the accompaners like those who have a call.
00:11:19
Speaker
to very intentionally walk with others in their faith. And so, you know, that's a new growth for us that we're still listening to God's call here. Like, how are you calling us to serve those who serve others?
00:11:33
Speaker
It's been the wildest, most fun and surprising ride and at times hard, the discernment process was a roller coaster because it was swings of consolation and desolation. It's really fun to see what God is bringing forward as a lot of people are coming together.
00:11:56
Speaker
Yeah. And, and as those people come into community with you, particularly like spiritual directors and people that serve other others, then they can be the catalyst for inviting more people into community who might be those newbies, right? Like they, they can go out and invite people back into, because it's a both and right. It's your personal relationship with God, but it's also the community that you're a part of. And so these,
00:12:19
Speaker
individuals that are part of Ignatian Ministries and more individuals that sign on can be those catalysts to invite other people within their community into conversations about faith and into parish life. Yes, I love the way you said that Gretchen, because it's really, I mean, again, part of our discernment was realizing God is really calling us to serve those who are walking with somebody else.
00:12:45
Speaker
And it was a letting go that we had to say is, okay, we are not really called to be this large evangelization ministry that is trying to invite anybody and everybody in. I mean, we're gonna welcome anybody who shows up. We're not like, who are you in a company or you're out? We had to really say, this is where God's calling us to put our flag. And this is who we're called to be and who we're called to walk with and then to let go of,
00:13:15
Speaker
there are other apostolates in our large church and other ministries and things that are really called to do that early evangelization work and you know really understanding our call is to help people that have entered the waters of faith
00:13:33
Speaker
and have come to a place where they're saying, man, I know there's something more I'm longing for, and I don't quite know how to get there. And I think that's when we come in. And I was doing an interview for our local diocese television station earlier this week, and I was telling them,
00:13:52
Speaker
an awakened heart needs accompaniment, longs for accompaniment. And I think that's where Ignatian Ministries comes in. A heart that has been awakened by love, honestly, to your podcast, and a heart that's been awakened by the Holy Spirit is yearning desperately longing for somebody. Help me, help come walk with me so that I can make sense of what God's now doing in me and also calling me to.
00:14:22
Speaker
Yeah, and the Into the Deep blog that was hosted on beckyeldridge.com just moved over to Ignatian Ministries. And that's an opportunity for people to sign up to receive those posts and have that connection even if they're not at the part where Ignatian Ministries is where they fit. They can read more about Ignatian spirituality and real life experience through the writers of that blog.
00:14:52
Speaker
Yeah, which has been such a beautiful journey. I mean, I'm so glad you're part of that community and because it's we have such an array of writers that are coming from all walks of life and a spectrum of experiences and depth and faith journeys. And so, I mean, I learned so much by editing, reading and getting to edit before they're published the blog. And we're excited. And I mean, we have we know that the blog will keep growing, you know, the team of writers and who
00:15:22
Speaker
We'll just kind of see who God brings us to invite along. Yeah, and I know that that's always been your goal is that taking the gifts that you have that God has given you and helping other people utilize their gifts, you know, the being able to not just it's not just about whether or not you have a big ministry and that it's growing, but that other people are able to also
00:15:46
Speaker
be growing their own ministries within the larger context of the faith. Yeah, well, and it's right next to me, there's a little thing I know, I think I said you went to as the entity writers, but it's a rising tide raises all the ships. And I think in this day and age, that, you know, we in some senses, I feel like we've lost that sense of
00:16:10
Speaker
for all or for others, you know, there's such a times I think we can, all of us, myself included, we can get trapped in individualism and, you know, what's in it for me mentality. And if we really, I think if we really take our call to Christian discipleship seriously, we understand that it's never just about me, that, you know, God created us to be in close intimate relationship with God and with Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
00:16:41
Speaker
for the purpose of also being in relationship with other people, right? And to let that relationship with God bleed, come through us and then bleed out and birth out into the lives of others. And so I think that's a core piece of who we are at Ignatian Ministries. I mean, and I think it's a personal value of mine too, is to remember, God didn't just give me these gifts for
Exploring Personal Identity and Belovedness
00:17:05
Speaker
myself, you know, I mean, I know you and I have talked about it. We're both writers and we have platforms that I know we want to build and publishers need us and want us to build. And I think it's such a temptation that we have to be very careful of that if we get so wrapped up in the numbers, then we've lost a sense of not only who we are, but I think what God's really asking of us. And again, your title of this podcast, loved as you are,
00:17:35
Speaker
I mean, that's all part of it. Part of us being loved as we are is we're not defined by the numbers. We're not defined by clicks or who's on our platform or whatever. I mean, there's so many numbers that we try to define ourselves by in life.
00:17:53
Speaker
whether we're adults or I look at my kids who are still worrying about grades and standardized, I mean, I'm talking to a high school teacher here, you know what I'm talking about. I mean, we try to help people. I think the world tries to define people by a number so often. And to come to this understanding of who we are in God, I mean, we realize the numbers fall away.
00:18:20
Speaker
other than the probably the one number that matters is from scripture the fact that God will leave the 99 to the one I mean it's probably like the one number that God cares about is that you matter to me and I will I will do anything to come bring you home you know
00:18:41
Speaker
It seems to me that when people understand, and I know this from my own experience, even though every conversation I have, they're reminders of, oh yeah, you are loved as you are. Oh, look at what they just said. You are also loved as you are. There's this idea that if you understand your belovedness, then those numbers don't matter to you as much anymore, that instead you start to really care about, do other people know this as well? And how can I help other people know this as well?
00:19:12
Speaker
To me, it's like often what gets in the way and why we care about the numbers so much is because we don't understand that we're loved as we are, no matter what. And that that love doesn't depend on anything. Once we understand that then, you know, it doesn't mean that we stop striving for success. It's just that it has a new meaning. It's how can I serve better? How can I be more the person God wanted me to be?
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah, well, and I know you're reading, you were telling me before we pushed record, reading Margaret Sill's book, The Inner Compass, and I cannot remember which of her books she writes this about. But she says there comes a point where God helps us know something that we cannot unknow.
00:19:58
Speaker
It's like so part of us that it is hard to not understand. And I think she uses the example of, it's like toothpaste coming out of a toothpaste, like a tube. Once you understand it, there's no coming back or putting it back in to you. And I think that is so true when it comes to this understanding. When God finally
00:20:24
Speaker
Well, God is always gifting it to us and it's like when we finally kind of understand this gift of we are loved just as we are and that there's nothing that we can do to
00:20:37
Speaker
not be loved and we're given it freely and it's not earned. That to me was such a life-changing moment. It was like a series of things that helped lead to my understanding of it. We're talking about things next to me. There's nine words that sit right here. They're right here because I have to remind myself of them all the time and that's who I am and God is who I am.
00:21:05
Speaker
who I am in God is who I am. And when we come to understand and get some taste of who we are in God, I think everything changes in a person. I know it did. And as a spiritual director, I watched that happen in people over and over again in a week. You know, it's like when we tap on the core of who God made us to be,
00:21:28
Speaker
life just changes, right? What we care about changes, who we care about, what we do, it all changes. And I think we've become more aligned with what truly what the gospel is about.
00:21:44
Speaker
Well, and we start to accept that what we are uniquely called for is not what everybody else is uniquely called for. And so we stop trying to compete for the one or two things everybody should be striving for, right? And we start just to think about how can I be better at being myself?
00:22:03
Speaker
And that's where the space comes in, right? That's where all the ships fit in the harbor is when we're all trying to be ourselves. It's so true. And I mean, as you were saying that Gretchen, it reminds me of just freedom. I mean, I think a truly free person is a person that knows their unshakable identity.
Becky's Spiritual Journey and Ignatian Introduction
00:22:23
Speaker
And when I think of my own life, when I am most free,
00:22:28
Speaker
is when I understand in a real tangible way, I know who I am. I know who I'd made me to be. And I'm going to go boldly live that person, be that person out in the world. Even when there's a cost to it, you know, in the sense of meaning other people may not understand.
00:22:49
Speaker
You know, I always think of the, you know, Kafflon pots in the kitchen. You know, it's like, when we can get, God can bring us to a place where we're like a Kafflon skillet and it just can, other people's opinions and things can just kind of slide off of it. You know, because we are so, God has helped us come to know in such a sure way.
00:23:12
Speaker
I know who you are. I love you. I created you as you are. And when we know that, I mean, everything changes.
00:23:22
Speaker
It's such a posture of freedom. Yeah. I just think it's funny. I expected a food analogy at some point from someone from Louisiana, so we got it in there in the beginning. I always think of Teresa of Avalanche. She's like, God speaks to me amongst the pots and the pans. Yeah. Yeah. It's so part of our culture. There's analogies and things. It's easy to, for me, it's like how God gives me understanding. Like, oh, I see what you're doing here, you know?
00:23:52
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's how God speaks to us, right? Right in the middle of our lived experience. Yeah. So I always ask a question at the beginning and every time people are like, why do you start with that big question that we have to answer? But I think it's important that people hear all the different ways people can answer this question, which is who is God to you and how did you come to that understanding? Yeah. Who is God to me?
00:24:26
Speaker
most meaningful relationship in my life. I mean, I'm going to say friend, but friend almost feels like not the most adequate word, you know, coming to know God. And I think when we talk about coming to know God, it's hard for, I mean, I think Jesus plays a huge role in us coming to understand who God the father is. And the Holy Spirit has a big role too. And so, you know,
00:24:44
Speaker
is the most real
00:24:54
Speaker
Jesus is as real to me as my kids and my husband. I mean, as just a companion that over the years I have just come to know and how, I mean, there's all kinds of ways. I mean, first and foremost has been through prayer and having a good guide through the years. I have worked with a spiritual director
00:25:18
Speaker
for 20 plus years, not the same one, but having that monthly commitment of having someone listen to my life and to my prayer and, you know, how is prayer impacting life? How is life impacting prayer? Has helped me for over two decades now just grow, continue to grow closer and closer and closer to Christ is who God is, who the Holy Spirit is. And so I think prayer alone
00:25:47
Speaker
helps us come to know, it's like a, I always think of it as a mirror, it's like a back and forth. Like God reveals who God is. And the more we know who God is, the more we understand who we are, and then we can like share that with God. I think of Jesus to Peter, who asked him, who do people, who do you say that I am? And Peter had an answer. And then in the gospel too, we see Jesus telling Peter who he is.
00:26:16
Speaker
So Peter says, well, some say you're Elijah, some say you're this, but Jesus is like, yeah, but who do you say that I am? And he says, you're the Messiah.
00:26:26
Speaker
And then we see Peter being reminded by Jesus who he is. You are Peter. You are the rock upon which I'm going to build my church. And so when I think of my life of coming to know who God is, it also means I've come to know who I am because I think that revelation, that sharing of self happens back and forth. And so prayer has been key, spiritual direction has been key.
00:26:55
Speaker
People just who have loved me and my wife, you know, and I think our human again, we're never in our individualistic society. I think we forget that we're not saved solo or we don't come to know who we are by ourselves.
00:27:13
Speaker
And so having people around me who loved me well, my grandparents are big, big influences. I mean, to have Chris, who we've been married 20 years now, to be loved by someone well, it makes a big difference because it helps us understand
00:27:34
Speaker
it's like we get a taste of what it's like to be loved by God. And I mean, I always hope like in the sense of the sacrament of marriage, you know, I pray every day that I can be some witness to Christ about how Christ loves him, you know, that I love him as Christ loves him, that I can love my kids as God wants me to love them. And so I think our human relationships
00:28:00
Speaker
our core to us understanding this. And again, as a spiritual director, what I hear is the impact of us not being loved well in our life. You know, if we've had broken relationships in our family of origins, if we didn't experience that sense of safety or security,
00:28:21
Speaker
it's going to impact as adults on our ability to believe that we're loved by God. And so image of God is such a core thing to talk about the spiritual direction with people. And a lot of that is helping God will bring people through stories of their life, memories of life, and almost like re-parent them, you know, and give them
00:28:50
Speaker
maybe if the paradigm that somebody was raised in made them feel they were unworthy. God's gonna come after that memory and re-parent, re-teach. This is what love actually looks like. And so all kinds of things can impact it. Our trauma in life, broken relationships,
00:29:19
Speaker
um, like abuse of all kinds, you know, so there's a reason Ignatius calls the principal and foundation the principal and foundation. I mean, because it's, it's the core of everything. It's, it's our life's work. Don't you think Gretchen? I mean, it is our life's call to understand this. Yeah.
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah, to have that freedom to be in relationship with God and to deepen that relationship. While you were speaking, I kept thinking about, I'm teaching an RCIA class on Sunday and it has the big overarching question, who is Jesus? And I did it for the first time last year and I'm still working with this image that came to mind to me of a puzzle. I have a silhouette of Jesus on the screen with just puzzle pieces throughout him. And then I have a silhouette of a person
00:30:07
Speaker
puzzle pieces throughout them because all of our lives we're trying to put pieces together to figure out who we are and then all of our lives we're trying to put puzzle pieces together to figure out who Jesus is but in the end we're not going to be able to finish either puzzle until we're reunited with you know God in heaven then we will kind of be able to figure it all out but like that's why it's a lifelong journey but that
00:30:31
Speaker
intentional investigation of what are the different pieces that come together is really what makes our lives so rich and what makes us be able to really show love to other people and what makes God real to other people as well. Yeah I love that image of the puzzle and I always when I listen Gretchen to people it just reminds me your puzzle piece of anytime I hear an I am statement
00:30:57
Speaker
I mean, my heart and my ear leap as when I'm listening in spiritual direction, because think of Jesus in the Gospel of John. He is telling us who he is, and I am the light of the world. I am the bread of life. I am the way, the truth, and the life. I am the gatekeeper. I'm missing some. I'm the vine and the branches and whatever else. Forgive me, God. I forgot about it.
00:31:23
Speaker
I think Jesus, John, as he's talking about Jesus is helping us understand in human language, this is who he is. We can understand what it means for light to come on in the darkness. I mean, I could go turn my light off and all and flip it back on and be like, okay, I get a sense of what that is.
Ignatian Spirituality in Modern Context
00:31:47
Speaker
And so throughout our life, Jesus offers us I ams.
00:31:53
Speaker
I can go back for all my life with God and go, okay, well he's helped me understand Jesus as healer, or as teacher, or as friend, or companion in the suffering. And just as Jesus gives us I Am statements, I think we also come to know I Am statements about ourself. And I think a huge one is when we can say, I am loved.
00:32:23
Speaker
know, or I am forgiven, or I am healed, or I am worthy of mercy. And then, you know, there's call ones that I think that come in there. I mean, like, I know you and I both are moms, like, there was a moment we were not parents, we were not mothers. And there was a moment we could say, well, one of my I ams is, I am a mother.
00:32:44
Speaker
We are both wives. I am a wife. I am a mother. I'm we're both writers. I am right. I am a writer. I'm called to be a writer. And so those I am like when you ask that question of how that come to know.
00:32:58
Speaker
I'm loved or who God is and who the Trinity is. I think it's been these little increments of I Am's. Jesus helping me know, well, this is who I am, Becky. And as I come to know who he is, it tells me something about who I am also. And it goes back and forth. And like you said, I don't think we'll ever fully grasp the mystery of God or the mystery of ourselves in this lifetime. Yeah.
00:33:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I think people try like at different times to say, this is who God is, everybody, this is who God is, this is what God wants, this is what, you know, God is asking of all of us. And that's what I think is so beautiful about Ignatian spirituality and Ignatian discernment, is that there's a yes,
00:33:48
Speaker
but also God's speaking to us directly, right? God's speaking to us as community, but God's also speaking to us directly. And there are some things God's asking of me that He's not asking of you, you know, and then we have to figure those things out through prayer and through conversation and through, you know, a deep process. And so the more that we understand that, the more we can kind of learn from each other's experiences instead of putting our experiences on to somebody else.
00:34:14
Speaker
It's gosh, yes. And the whole piece, like you said, Ignatian spirituality and the Ignatian discernment, it is rooted in the fact that God thinks we're already highly favored. We are already good. We are already loved.
00:34:29
Speaker
And so the first step of any good discernment process is re-anchoring or anchoring for the first time in this understanding of I am loved by God. I am uniquely created and I have a unique path to
00:34:50
Speaker
praise, love and serve God as Ignatius would say. So that's why I love Ignatius spirituality. I mean, I found a home in it personally, first and foremost, because it starts with that we are all good and created in God's image.
00:35:06
Speaker
And the more I believe that about myself, the more I'm going to believe that about the person I'm encountering, you know, whether it's somebody I like or I don't like, right, or rubs me wrong, or, you know, a stranger on the street. I mean, so, but that's a key place of Ignatian spirituality is where it starts. And the foundation, right, that I am loved, I am good, I'm already highly favored, and I have a unique purpose and call.
00:35:35
Speaker
And I'm called to do what God is calling me to do and live it to the fullest.
00:35:44
Speaker
Yeah. So Becky, I spent two years in Baton Rouge and it's a very Catholic city. And I really did find so many encounters about faith when I was there and I was only 22, 23. And so I was really still being formed in my faith. And there were so many wonderful mentors that were encouraging me to really deepen my faith. But I never heard about Ignatian spirituality while I was there.
00:36:10
Speaker
But I now know that like you in a rich community of people are deeply involved in Ignatian spirituality. So where did you discover Ignatian spirituality or where did it first kind of make its appearance for you?
00:36:24
Speaker
It's funny you say that because my first encounter with it, the language was not there. And I mean, but I think that's kind of historically, if we put that in our church history, I think it's part of the rediscovering of curisms of religious and that we're still tasting the fruit of.
00:36:42
Speaker
And there's no Jesuit schools in Baton Rouge. Right. What we did have and still have are schools that were founded and run by the Sisters of St. Joseph of Madi. And their founder, Father Madi, was a Jesuit. And so I did not know that my K through 12th education was immersed in Ignatian spirituality.
00:37:07
Speaker
And it wasn't until probably when I started grad school, I was working at the Diocese of Baton Rouge, and I was getting my master's in pastoral studies through Loyola University in New Orleans, that I was like, what? This one's name? I had no idea that it had a name.
00:37:27
Speaker
So that happened, my master's program. I had begun working with a spiritual director in college. So I was kind of starting to understand what this was a little more. And then I'll say the biggest thing that helps me understand Ignatian spirituality was working with Charis Ministries.
00:37:45
Speaker
That's a Jesuit retreat program for people in their 20s and 30s who basically create Ignatian retreats for young adults. And I started, I was working at the diocese and the bishop asked me because I was the only, it was me and one other guy that were under 40 that worked at the diocese. And this was like, I was 24 at the time when this happened. So it was a long time ago. And he said, Hey, let's look at best practices across the country and young adult ministry.
00:38:15
Speaker
And so I put a committee together. We were like, what are the best practices? Who's doing Young Adult Ministry well? And Sister Ellie Fernandez said, there's this retreat ministry in Cincinnati and Chicago we should look at called CARIS. And I called them.
00:38:33
Speaker
like phone call that changes your life. Jeanine Francis answered and Jeanine come to find out Kerris was based in Chicago. They had just received a grant to bring their retreats outside of Chicago and she calls me back. She's like would Baton Rouge want to be one of our national partners? Oh wow.
00:38:53
Speaker
Sure. And so that phone call changed so much the trajectory of really not only my ministry life, but my personal life because I began retreat work in the Ignatian, doing Ignatian retreat work. And so brought that to Baton Rouge.
00:39:16
Speaker
Then we moved to Georgia and we were at Chris and I. Chris was at University of Georgia getting his MBA and we were there and I brought Kerris retreats there and then began working for Kerris nationally in helping other diocese and parishes and organizations do these retreats.
00:39:33
Speaker
That just kept wetting my appetite. And again, I had been formed in the Ignatian way of retreat work, but just did not know it. My formation as a high schooler, as a college student, all my early formators were really forming me in the Ignatian way of retreat
Adapting Ignatian Spiritual Exercises
00:39:52
Speaker
work. And it was Paris that I was like, oh,
00:39:56
Speaker
I know what we're doing here, you know, and to understand Ignatius's path, which there's a reason his path is still around his pathway. And so so it's just kind of like snowballed from there. And I kept saying I wanted to make the exercises and kept begging God and had found a director in Baton Rouge who could take me through the exercises and then we moved.
00:40:23
Speaker
And there was no spiritual directors anywhere around. And I'll never forget, we were at this, the Franciscans ran the chapel, the campus ministry at University of Georgia's campus. When Sister Marie called me, she was my Ignatian friend in the Franciscan world. And she's like, you're not gonna believe. I'm like, what Sister Marie? And she said, there is an Ignatian director who just got a grant to be at University of Georgia for one year.
00:40:52
Speaker
He is willing to take you through the exercises. And so, um, Jim Maloney was there. And so Jim took me through and, um, I prayed those bad boys with Abby in my arms. She was six people when I started praying them. And anyway, it's just been this like one thing has led to the next thing. Um, next thing. So it's been amazing.
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah, it does seem that once you get introduced to Ignatian spirituality, it kind of follows you around wherever you go. So that for your own story and what I'm even watching you right now step into you know, yeah. Yeah, I mean, unlike you, I don't think I was formed in the ways of Ignatian spirituality. But it was like,
00:41:41
Speaker
deeply connected to who I was as a person when I discovered that, hey, there's this spirituality that connects with your daily life and your daily experiences. And that really believes there's a conversation happening between you and God and between God and the community and
00:41:59
Speaker
It's what's happening in our church right now with this week. The Synod is that expression of God is talking to each one of us and God is talking to our community. And we have to get out of the way and listen to what God is saying. And the way that we do that is by listening to God's voice come through each one of us in conversation. I think it's just so beautiful to see
00:42:25
Speaker
I don't know if I would have recognized that this was a very kind of, you know, Pope Francis is in charge of the whole church, but he's also a Jesuit. So, like, this is a very Ignatian thing, you know, to really, to really go through these spiritual conversations, to go through this discernment, and to really value what comes out of it. It's, one, it's so vital. And I love what you're saying, because you and I both are Ignatian, I know.
00:42:49
Speaker
whenever you were talking about it's like you came home to your spirituality and which for you was Ignatian for me was it when somebody gave me the word Ignatian but I also love Gretchen when I watch somebody name oh I'm a Dominican oh and oh it's Franciscan or
00:43:09
Speaker
And I mean, that's where, and I feel this so strongly as a director, yes, I was trained in Ignatius's way, you know, in the Ignatian tradition. However,
00:43:22
Speaker
I have to be open to hearing how God moves in people in all kinds of ways. And what resonates for me in my spirituality is not gonna always resonate into the person I'm listening to. And so I think that's part of what's just amazing is knowing that God is so big and so unique and so personal to each one of us, even down to how we relate to God.
00:43:47
Speaker
I mean, it's when you look again, your podcast loved as you are. God loves us so personally and created us so uniquely that there's even different ways that we're made to relate to God. And I just love there's such freedom in that, like,
00:44:04
Speaker
I just, I love that so much as a spiritual director because I'm like, Oh, look at you, God. Like, look at you working in that person's life in a prayer method. I would never pick up, you know, or, you know, I mean, it's just amazing to watch God invite a person. And I mean, I can think of my own life too, but
00:44:22
Speaker
Hey, we're going to be in relationship this way for right now and then offer you this new prayer tool. And I'm going to offer you this one in another season of life. And God knows what we need, even down how we're called to be in relationship with God. It's just, it's so fun.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah, I don't remember, I was teaching about spirituality and prayer once to a group of adults. And I don't remember what book I read it out of, but it was like, there's this line that said, there's as many spiritualities as there are people, like they're the great spiritualities of the church, the named spiritualities of the church. But that doesn't limit us within that way of communicating with God. And then even within those great spiritualities, Ignatian Spirituality, Benedict,
00:45:06
Speaker
Benedict and Dominican, what makes them great is that they weren't stagnant. They didn't remain with how big Benedict or Ignatius made them, but people continued to explore and add to and enrich those spiritualities that made them relevant to the people who were experiencing them today, right? And it's like the end or the tension in that is it's like there's core, the core
00:45:34
Speaker
kind of spirit-given charism of these spiritualities are the same. I mean, they're still there and animating, and then the expression of it is changing. So, I mean, if we looked out into the world, the Ignatian world, and all the different ways Ignatian spirituality is being offered, you know, again, I think spiritualities, we throw that word around, and they really are pathways to God.
00:46:00
Speaker
I mean, I know when I, we went last year on a Ignatian pilgrimage and when I knelt in the cave of where, you know, the exercises were born, I just kept thinking, you literally just created a pathway to God. Like, I mean, and it was really God. I mean, he was open. What I really said was one man was so open to God's work in his life.
00:46:25
Speaker
look at what God has continued to bear fruit out of Ignatius' understanding that he was loved and his goodness to God, his freedom and his courage to be able to do what God asked him to do. And I think that's what these big, like the big seven schools of spirituality, I always think in our Catholic tradition, that they offer us paths of intimacy.
00:46:54
Speaker
to come to know God. And again, as we know God, we come to know who we are. And I think the more we know who God is, the more we know we are, then the way we interact with people changes. I think we bring something different out in the world. It's truly, I think, how the gospel keeps bearing fruit. If we know we are loved well, then the next person we encounter is going to get a different experience.
00:47:23
Speaker
Yeah, and I like how you said there's core things that remain true. And then there's ways that we adapt them because the spiritual exercises have remained the spiritual exercises. But, you know, I think Ignatius, I could imagine that he might be happy to know that we've adjusted it so that you don't have to leave for 30 days of your life, you know, to go off in silence to be able to engage with the exercises so that it can go to more people so that more people can have that experience
00:47:52
Speaker
within the context of their daily life. Well, and even when you look at his annotations at the beginning, I mean, he already, I mean, the 19th annotation of the spiritual exercises is from Ignatius. And he, since then, they're going to be busy people who cannot go do a 30 day. And so, you know, the 20th annotation is 30 day, the 19th is in everyday life. And then he even 18th annotation that saying,
00:48:17
Speaker
Well, even though some of y'all might not want to do it, have the time to do it in nine or 10 months, we're going to adapt it in all these different ways. When we look out, what does that mean for us today? That's the retreat houses that are giving, you know, preached Ignatian retreats or the retreat houses that are offering eight days, five day side retreats with the director.
Challenges to Recognizing Belovedness
00:48:39
Speaker
So it's really, it's beautiful. And even Ignatius's, I mean, what's core still to Ignatian spirituality, just like consolation, desolation. And if we read in his texts where he defines in his Rules of Discernment, what is defining consolation, desolation, there's different words that we have to put today.
00:49:02
Speaker
Like anxiety is a word we would use a lot with desolation today, honoring mental health always too. But I think that's the beauty of it. And then our religion, like our Catholic religion comes in, religion in Latin is re-tare to tie back to.
00:49:25
Speaker
And I think our spiritualities are a pathway to God and our religion is what keeps tying us back to what we believe.
00:49:37
Speaker
It's not separate. And I think sometimes, again, a temptation with Ignatian spirituality is to keep it separate from the religion it was born out of and are born in. And, you know, there is a key role in our communal faith. If you really believe and walk the path of Ignatius that he laid out for us, which is the pathway to Christ, there is a communal aspect to it.
00:50:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, even as you engage often in the spiritual exercises silently and individually, you're still meeting with a spiritual director, and then you're still saying, what am I going to do when I go back into the world? What am I going to do when I go back into community? How is this exercise going to serve my community, my faith community, my extended community? Yeah, and my faith. I mean, the people closest to us in every concentric circle
00:50:34
Speaker
And I think that's a piece when we talk love. Again, if we anchor it in the exercises, you know, there's a reason in the fourth week, though, meditation we pray with over and over again is the contemplation to learn to love like God, which is outward facing expression of love. It's, you know, those movements of that meditation are
00:50:57
Speaker
thanking God for all the gifts we've received, returning them to God, acknowledging that God is continually creating me, continually offering me gifts to offer up back to God with a big purpose, which is the why, like for the good of others. A woman for others, a man for others, a person for others. And so the exercises start
00:51:25
Speaker
with the principle and foundation and love, and they end with the contemplation to learn to love like God. How is God calling me in a unique way to express God's love out in the world?
00:51:41
Speaker
Yeah. So I mean, obviously when we go through the spiritual exercises, we have touch points that we carry with us forever. Is there a particular moment in any of the times that you've engaged in that retreat or just in daily life that sticks out to you that is this ability to remind yourself that you're loved as you are? Yes.
00:52:06
Speaker
Golly, you want just one, let me. Here, you can go as many as you want. I mean, the one that is jumping to mind right now, it actually was after the exercises, but it was a moment of Ignatian contemplation with the woman at the well. And it was a moment
00:52:29
Speaker
of sitting with Jesus, imagining myself like the Holy Spirit was inviting me to imagine myself at the well with Jesus and Jesus really claiming me as his and helping me. It was a moment where my grandfather, who was so near and dear to me and really was such a mirror for me about who I am and how I'm loved. And I was
00:52:54
Speaker
anticipating his death. He had an eternal brain tumor. God helped me know in that moment of prayer, do not worry. I know you will always have a place, a person that you belong to. I felt like it was this baptism moment of
00:53:17
Speaker
Jesus taking me and it's like I claim you as my own you know and his mom Mary is a huge influence in my life and in my prayer and Mary brought me to her son at that well and And you know so that that is a key one During the exercises the the nine words who I am and God is who I am became he grounding foundation of
00:53:45
Speaker
It was kind of like the grace that God gave me to understand what was happening in me. It was this understanding of who I know who I am. I can define myself by all these things, but this is who you are. And a big piece that came kind of before those nine words was in the exercises, God said, resituate your life.
00:54:12
Speaker
And I think prior to that moment and that season of the exercises, it was this moment of trying to look to other people and to other to define myself. And, you know, I mean, and that was only 14 years ago that happened or a half, I guess.
00:54:30
Speaker
I was getting to the half birthday, but I just think even up to that point, I had tried to look to other people. There's a real tense situation happening in my life that I kept thinking, this is what's going to define me.
00:54:46
Speaker
And when God said, resituate your life, it was, I need you to put your eyes on me first. Look at me first. I know it's a weird line in scripture, depending on the translation in Isaiah, but there's a line in Isaiah that says, I the first am he. And I think that is so much what
00:55:08
Speaker
When I think love, especially in the Ignatian tradition, it's understanding the order of love, that it's loving God and letting God love us first. They'll come into order or the greatest commandment. Love your God, Lord your God with all your mind, heart and spirit. Love your neighbor as yourself. And so those moments, I mean, I could talk about them and I can close my eyes and I can come back immediately to
00:55:36
Speaker
these defining moments that still, I mean, I revisit and savor and pray. Yeah, and a class I taught last semester, last year, called Christian Relationships, I talked to the students about what are the challenges to relationships with our healthy relationships and unhealthy relationships. And we talked about the idea that when you have a foundation,
00:56:01
Speaker
in God or foundation in something that's bigger than human beings, it's easier to navigate those. It's easier to say, I have to move away from this particular relationship because it's unhealthy or I have to mend this or fix this because you're not ever losing your footing. You have something to stand on, which is hard to understand, I think,
00:56:25
Speaker
when you're 18 or even, you know, 20 something or maybe even 40 something, but it's something to continually try to remind yourself of like, what am I standing on? Is it people that foundations, you know, loved and broken at the same time. So what are we standing on? Yeah.
00:56:45
Speaker
It's so true because I think that's where Ignatius is, if we put things in the right order, if we allow God to help us put our lives in the right order, which is God first and foremost, and then letting that relationship with God, all the other relationships flow in and out of that relationship. That, to me, is the posture of freedom.
00:57:10
Speaker
It's always like a bike wheel to me. It's like, God, if God is that center hub and all the spokes of our life come through it, that's the way of living, I should say, that brings us more peace in birth's freedom, birth's generosity, generativity. That's the posture that invites us to live, not just for ourselves,
00:57:35
Speaker
but for God first and take care for our brothers and sisters. I mean, that's what Jesus did, and I think that's our hard, lifelong walk in our Christian faith, I think.
00:57:51
Speaker
In a previous podcast interview, I was talking with Jean Heaton about her book, and she told me who her like who she carried along with her as she was writing her books, because when you write books about spirituality, they're not memoirs, their abilities to, you know, serve somebody else. And you have two, two books, Busy Lives and Rest the Souls, and then The Inner Chapel. Can you tell us who you carried with you?
00:58:16
Speaker
with those books? Who are you trying to write those for? Who write them for? Yeah, it's so funny. Busy Lives had this file of images of people.
00:58:27
Speaker
at every time I'd write up look at them. Several of them are actually from Dallas, which I know you're in Dallas. But it was it was some different faces of people that I would because busy lives is such about here's how to have a prayer life in the in the busyness. And it was people that I met in Dallas or and there were some others in there, but who were
00:58:51
Speaker
very busy and very restless. And we're searching and searching and searching for
00:58:58
Speaker
meaning and purpose and peace. There were these defining moments that happened when we lived in Dallas that I'll just never forget. One of them happened at a trampoline park of a guy who looked at me and said, Becky, I have it all by the American standard, but why do I feel so lost and alone and restless?
00:59:24
Speaker
And so when I think of busy lives, it was really written for people who are awakened and longing and look and not sure where to go. And what can support that is to begin to engage in a more intentional prayer life that is contemplative, that has room not only for talking, but for listening to God. And then in our chapel,
00:59:52
Speaker
I mean, in a lot of sense, I didn't intend for my grandparents to be such a key players in that book, but I wrote it right around, I mean, it was right alongside when my granddad had died, we had taken care of him with glioblastoma and my grandmother who had Alzheimer's. And so, I mean, they came to mind and I think inner chapel was for people
01:00:16
Speaker
like them who have experienced hard times in life. And we're asking, you know, where is my farm ground?
01:00:27
Speaker
as the other piece of the inner chapel is about writing about the promises of God. And so, you know, the people I have in mind for the inner chapel is people who are looking for deeper waters, who have lived something hard in life and are saying, man, where is my firm ground? You know, God gives us these unbelievable promises that they're unshakable. I mean, we like to think they're shakable, but they're not. One of them, which is we're, we're loved unconditionally. Yeah.
Cultural and Personal Influences on Spiritual Beliefs
01:00:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:58
Speaker
I think you probably just answered this question kind of within the context of who you were writing for, but I always like to, in these conversations with the question of what is it, what do you think is challenging about people understanding their belovedness in today's time? Like what gets in the way every century, every decade has things that get in the way of, and maybe sometimes it's universal and sometimes it changes, but what do you think gets in the way of that today?
01:01:28
Speaker
Definitely people's life stories, like actual events of people's life, whether it's relationships, you know, I mean, I think in terms of so much of our understanding of God's love comes from how we were loved as people. So, you know, that might be a family of origin thing. It could be a significant relationship, friendship, you know, dating relationship, marriage, whatever that has helped us
01:01:58
Speaker
no love with condition or no love with broken, like that's had some kind of, I don't have a better word other than wonkiness. I think that's a real thing. I think the comparison game, but you know, I know we talk negative. I don't, I love social media. I love all the, all the tools of the internet, but I do think there's more of a comparison than I've ever seen that
01:02:26
Speaker
you know, Chris and I, Chris is my husband, we look all the time at each other and we're like, well, when is it going to be enough? You know, like at what point will there be, and whatever the enough is. And so I think that has a tendency to get away. And I think our American culture has such this kind of paradigm that, you know, we earn things. And so I think to,
01:02:53
Speaker
a big piece in spiritual direction is helping people realize there is no earning God's love. There's not some finish line that you're going to get across that suddenly only then you're good enough. You know, so I think those are things and I mean, but the greatest, I mean, and I really say this as a spiritual director, the things that most inhibit people's belief are something that has happened to them in life. You know, traumas,
01:03:24
Speaker
big or small events in life that relationships, the way people love us has a huge impact on the way we believe.
01:03:34
Speaker
I mean, it really impacts our image of God. And not necessarily always having the tools to dissect those things, right? Because I know that spiritual direction is a great offering to kind of dissect some of that with God and your relationship with God. But then there's also the whole field of mental health that is also there to dissect those things in a different way.
01:03:57
Speaker
Yeah, and then both it's a both and situation one doesn't kind of replace the other but if you don't have access to that or you're not aware those things are actually like something that you can take advantage of That makes it harder to go through those and reflect on those things it is in our body, too I mean, I love the image of a bird with what you're talking about that You know a bird has a body and two wings and I think we have physical bodies and there's a wing
01:04:27
Speaker
that our mental health and emotional health is part of, and there's a wing of our spiritual life. And I mean, again, Ignatian spirituality, it's a holistic integrative spirituality and paradigm. And so, yes, I mean, spiritual direction and spirituality work and prayer is a piece, but so is care of our body, so is care of our mental health. And each
01:04:54
Speaker
Kind of school of thought and schools of thought have things to offer us to better understand who we are. And, you know, what has gotten the way of us being loved or understanding that we're love or what is getting the way of us being loving to others so.
01:05:11
Speaker
I think, again, as a spiritual director, I've got to be able to point people all kinds of places, invite people. Because many times it's come beyond what I've been trained to do. I invite them over to a counselor. Sometimes I invite them to a medical doctor. If that's what I sense is needed for them to have an understanding
01:05:35
Speaker
of who God made them to be and just kind of even the essence of their bodies. Yeah, definitely a both and situation as usual. We need
01:05:49
Speaker
Um, is it both? And if there's more than two anyway, graduates give us great language and the cure of personalis, the whole, I think, and I mean, when you're talking about what can get in the way of people believing they're loved by God, I mean, Gretchen, I mean, I can't tell you how many times people think God doesn't care about that.
Conclusion and Future Anticipations
01:06:14
Speaker
right whatever and they'll insert fill in the blank you know something that happened in their life or their finances or a stress that they're going through and and so a big piece i think of us coming to understand how deeply loved we are is is people coming to know that god cares about all of it
01:06:35
Speaker
like every little aspect of our life, like what we put in our bodies or how we spend our money and what we, you know, what are we doing tonight on Friday night or Saturday, whatever. I mean, all those things, um, what happened to us in our past, that's a huge one. People believe I've gone through something so hard and God doesn't care. I mean, and that is it. That takes a long time for people to trust.
01:07:04
Speaker
God's big enough to care about all of it in every person at the same time, which is mind blowing. Yeah, even though we're busy, God's not too busy for all the things that we have. Well, Becky, this has been a wonderful conversation. I'm sure it will not be our last conversation about Ignatian spirituality or being loved as you are. But thank you so much for coming on and talking to me about this very important topic.
01:07:28
Speaker
Well, and thank you for the invitation. And I am just many, many blessings. I pray for your podcast and your stepping out in faith all the time. So thank you.
01:08:00
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Becky. Becky was a key mentor for me and my foray into writing, speaking, and even this podcast. I always learned something new from a conversation with her. I hope you did today as well. You can find her websites, Instagram, and more linked in the show notes.
01:08:20
Speaker
Do you think you or someone you know has a story about being loved as you are that would fit with this podcast? Please reach out to me and let me know by emailing me at lovedasurpod at gmail.com. I have another exciting guest coming your way soon. But for now, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. And even in the most challenging moments of this holiday season, remember to be who you are.
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Speaker
because that's exactly who God wants you to be.